Cover art for podcast Transforming Trauma

Transforming Trauma

90 EpisodesProduced by The NARM Training InstituteWebsite

Transforming Trauma is a podcast about individuals and communities thriving after Complex Trauma. In a modern world beset by trauma and a legacy of suffering, conflict and disconnection, healing trauma can serve as a vehicle for personal and social transformation. Listeners will be introduced to th… read more


Mind-Body Healing with Dr. Lissa Rankin in conversation with Dr. Laurence Heller

This extraordinary conversation between mind-body physician and author Dr. Lissa Rankin, MD, and NARM creator Dr. Laurence Heller, PhD. centers around healing through the integration of western and non-western healing modalities. Dr. Rankin believes that to optimize healing it takes an integrated approach between the sciences, traumatology, spirituality, and collective healing. 

Dr. Heller acknowledges the powerful overlap between these approaches, and more specifically shares how science is now validating the various forms of complex trauma that NARM addresses, for example, working with pre and perinatal trauma.

Dr. Rankin reflects on her own experiences with developmental trauma. She distinguishes the type of trauma she experienced compared to the trauma that was assessed in the ACES study. She further explains that despite having an ACE score of 0, she still believes she experienced developmental trauma. She compares her trauma to what NARM calls the Attunement Survival Style.

Dr. Heller acknowledges the distinction she is drawing and the limitations that the ACE study has when it comes to children experiencing misattunement. They reflect together on how there is a spectrum of experiences that can create developmental trauma and the importance of expanding the definition of complex trauma.

Dr. Rankin and Dr. Heller reflect on the various ways they’re both working to make trauma healing more accessible. They discuss the importance of shifting the paradigm from chronic stress to relational health, and that if we can educate frontline workers about how to assess trauma and how to support relational health, we can increase the amount of support people are receiving and start to address trauma collectively. 

Bio: Lissa Rankin, MD, is a mind-body medicine physician, author of 7 books, founder of the Whole Health Medicine Institute, and mystic who researches radical remission, trauma-informed medicine, and spiritual healing. Her TEDx talks have been viewed over 5 million times, and she starred in two National Public Television specials- Heal Yourself: Mind Over Medicine and The Fear Cure. Lissa’s interest in the link between loneliness and disease led her to spearhead her latest project, Heal At Last, a non-profit organization which aims to bring effective trauma healing and spiritual healing methods to anyone ready for the deep dive of healing.




To read the full show notes and discover more resources visit


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The NARM Training Institute provides tools for transforming complex trauma through: in-person and online trainings for mental health care professionals; in-person and online workshops on complex trauma and how it interplays with areas like addiction, parenting, and cultural trauma; an online self-paced learning program, the NARM Inner Circle; and other trauma-informed learning resources.  

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