Cover art for podcast Transforming Trauma

Transforming Trauma

90 EpisodesProduced by The NARM Training InstituteWebsite

Transforming Trauma is a podcast about individuals and communities thriving after Complex Trauma. In a modern world beset by trauma and a legacy of suffering, conflict and disconnection, healing trauma can serve as a vehicle for personal and social transformation. Listeners will be introduced to th… read more


Internal Family Systems (IFS) and NARM with Richard Schwartz and Laurence Heller

“We can safely say that that Self in its undamaged state is in everybody.” ~ Dr. Richard Schwartz, Founder of Internal Family Systems

“There's a part of us that always remains undamaged.” ~ Dr. Laurence Heller, Founder of NeuroAffective Relational Model

A ground-breaking discussion between Richard Schwartz, PhD, founder of the Internal Family Systems model (IFS) and Laurence Heller, PhD, founder of the NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM).  Pioneers in the mental health and trauma fields, Drs. Schwartz and Heller discuss each other’s work and reflect on the intersections of the IFS and NARM models.

While many think of IFS and NARM as being models for trauma, Drs. Schwartz and Heller acknowledge that the similar focus of both IFS and NARM is truly on the Self, that internal place within us all that provides the foundation for our lives despite the complexity of wounding and traumas that one has experienced.

Although aspects of ourselves can become damaged and distorted by trauma, Drs. Schwartz and Heller both agree with a non-Western perspective that the Self “in its undamaged state is in everybody” (Schwartz) and “always remains undamaged.” (Heller). 

Both IFS and NARM are oriented around supporting the organic process of individuals returning to their authentic selves; in this way, they are also models for healing complex trauma.

Dr. Heller shares with Dr. Schwartz that throughout the years of teaching NARM, many people have remarked on the similarities between the IFS and NARM models. This feedback fueled the intention for bringing Drs. Schwartz onto the Transforming Trauma podcast to give an opportunity for the two to reflect on these important therapeutic models.

There is a feeling of an important coming together as these two pioneers in their field reflect on their 40+ year careers, find common ground and mutual appreciation. At the end of their discussion, Dr. Schwartz shares: “It’s great for me to find kindred spirits. There aren’t that many of us that think this way.”  

What might the future hold for IFS and NARM working together for bringing healing to our world?


IFS Institute

Ron Kurtz / The Hakomi Institute

The Gestalt Institute Of The Rockies 

Alexander Lowen / The Alexander Lowen Foundation

Conversations with Alanis Morissette - Episode 9


NARM Online Basics Training begins November 13, 2020.


Online NARM Basics Training:


NARM Training Institute


The NARM Training Institute provides tools for transforming complex trauma through: in-person and online trainings for mental health care professionals; in-person and online workshops on complex trauma and how it interplays with areas like addiction, parenting, and cultural trauma; an online self-paced learning program, the NARM Inner Circle; and other trauma-informed learning resources.  

For the full show notes including references, podcast episodes mentioned, and a quick glossary of terms, visit us at


We want to connect with you!

Facebook @NARMtraining

Twitter @NARMtraining


Instagram @thenarmtraininginstitute

Educational emoji reaction


Interesting emoji reaction


Funny emoji reaction


Agree emoji reaction


Love emoji reaction


Wow emoji reaction


Are you the creator of this podcast?

Verify your account

and pick the featured episodes for your show.

Listen to Transforming Trauma


A free podcast app for iPhone and Android

  • User-created playlists and collections
  • Download episodes while on WiFi to listen without using mobile data
  • Stream podcast episodes without waiting for a download
  • Queue episodes to create a personal continuous playlist
RadioPublic on iOS and Android
Or by RSS
RSS feed

Connect with listeners

Podcasters use the RadioPublic listener relationship platform to build lasting connections with fans

Yes, let's begin connecting
Browser window

Find new listeners

  • A dedicated website for your podcast
  • Web embed players designed to convert visitors to listeners in the RadioPublic apps for iPhone and Android
Clicking mouse cursor

Understand your audience

  • Capture listener activity with affinity scores
  • Measure your promotional campaigns and integrate with Google and Facebook analytics
Graph of increasing value

Engage your fanbase

  • Deliver timely Calls To Action, including email acquistion for your mailing list
  • Share exactly the right moment in an episode via text, email, and social media
Icon of cellphone with money

Make money

  • Tip and transfer funds directly to podcastsers
  • Earn money for qualified plays in the RadioPublic apps with Paid Listens