Cover art for podcast The Productpreneur Podcast

The Productpreneur Podcast

100 EpisodesProduced by Nicole de LarzacWebsite

Welcome to the Productpreneur Podcast where we help you launch and scale your product business. Learn from and get inspired by successful product entrepreneurs and the experts who help them. In each episode, we’ll share the latest trends, proven strategies and inside secrets of the product world –… read more

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114. LLUNA: Changing the Landscape of Employee Engagement with Jess Podgajny

August 12th, 2022

35:48

We spend most of our time at work or working within our teams and on our own businesses. So, why is employee engagement so important? 

 

Whether you’re a small team of entrepreneurs, a large corporation, or have a …

113. Introducing Wove: Reinventing the Engagement Ring Experience with Brian Elliott

July 21st, 2022

39:08

Have you ever thought about how you could change an outdated consumer experience that we take for granted as being the way it is? 

 

Think of …

112. Building a Magnetic Brand with Anna Lozano

July 8th, 2022

53:44

How do you build a magnetic brand? What’s the secret sauce behind landing dream collaborations and scaling your product-based business?  Why is …

111. Introducing Marlow: A Lubricated Tampon with Nadia Ladak

June 30th, 2022

25:49

How did four Gen-Zers take an ordinary, everyday product and transform it into a life-changing product?

 

Meet Marlow: a lubricated tampon. Joining me for this conversation is one of the co-founders, Nadia Ladak.

 

110: How AI is Impacting E-Commerce with Shanif Dhanani

June 17th, 2022

24:15

How is AI impacting e-commerce? I know this thought can be overwhelming for some, but there are benefits and ways that AI helps e-commerce companies thrive. 

 

In this episode, I sit down with Shanif Dhanani to discuss …

109. Reair: Rising Above Poverty to Build a Successful Jewelry Brand - Lia Valencia Key

June 10th, 2022

53:11

This is one of my favorite episodes.

It was an honor and a privilege to interview this VERY special guest, Lia Valencia Key, founder of VALENCIA KEY Jewelry.  From growing up in a homeless shelter to rising above her …

108: ReAir: Serial food entrepreneur launches plant-based delivery: Madi Warnock

June 3rd, 2022

53:42

In this episode, we interview a young serial entrepreneur who founded three successful food companies, including her most recent one launching during …

107: An Inside Look at Mabel’s Labels with Julie Cole

May 26th, 2022

36:40

Have you ever wanted to learn the behind the scenes of how Mabel’s Labels came to be?

 

Julie Cole, one of the co-founders of Mabel’s Labels, the …

106: Redefining Womens’ Age and Healing Pain through Cannabis Products with Shauna Levy

May 19th, 2022

43:38

 

Shauna Levy is redefining womens’ age and helping them to heal their pain through her cannabis products. She gives us an in-depth look at how her products help women, and also debunks myths around CBD and THC in …

105: Pivoting after falling out of love with your product business with Kathy Fernandez

May 12th, 2022

34:40

Did you start your product business and have since fallen out of love with it? It’s okay to pivot and start over with something new. My guest, Kathy Fernandez, is a former client and product business owner. 

In this …

104: Growing your product business using organic social media marketing - Charlotte Smith

May 5th, 2022

35:04

How do you grow and market your products in an organic way? We can leverage Facebook groups, other social media platforms, and email marketing. My guest, Charlotte Smith, shares how she scaled her business to 75k in …

103: Gear for Girls+Women in a World of Male-Dominated Sports - Deb North

April 30th, 2022

34:02

The best products are those that target an unmet need in the market.  I’m excited to share this episode with Deb North, founder of Yes! Athletics.

 

102: Leadership Lessons - on the Female Founder Friday Podcast with Lindsay White

April 22nd, 2022

29:56

Have you thought of yourself as a leader?  If you’re an entrepreneur, you are by default a leader.  You lead your team,  you lead your suppliers, and …

101: A Financial Product to Unlock the Market for First-time Homebuyers - Alex Kjorven

April 16th, 2022

43:57

It's no secret that it's becoming more and more difficult for first-time homebuyers to enter the housing market without the help of the 'bank of mom …

100: Celebrating 100 Episodes - top 5

April 8th, 2022

27:33

Today we’re celebrating our 100th episode and to celebrate, I wanted to share 5 clips of interviews from some of our most popular episodes.  It’s so …

99: Creating a Military-Grade Bag for Moms - Jillian Coburn

March 31st, 2022

39:15

Today we meet a really interesting guest who invented a new product because she couldn’t find anything like it. You’ll hear her story of how it …

98: Creating Breakthrough Advertising for Your Business - Lauren Schwartz

March 24th, 2022

34:31

If you’re trying to figure out the secret sauce to breaking through with your advertising, this week’s episode is for you.  As our guest explains, you have a few seconds to grab the attention of your audience, so you’ve …

97: Creating a Smart Tech Product Inspired by Rituals - Kate Bouchard

March 17th, 2022

46:31

I’m so thrilled to welcome this amazing female founder who decided to reinvent a very dull product and create something that is not only functional …

96: My Top 10 Productivity Hacks

March 11th, 2022

19:51

Whether you’re an entrepreneur, aspiring entrepreneur, employed or a parent…whatever you do, it never fails that we live full lives. Being connected …

95: Serial Entrepreneur Couple Reinvents the Stamp to Create Custom Packaging - Rebecca & Simon McIntyre

March 3rd, 2022

1:00:01

I’m so thrilled to share this episode with former friends and colleagues of mine - Simon and Rebecca McIntyre, a husband and wife duo from Australia …

94: Making the Most of your Product Photography - Joanna Wojewoda

February 24th, 2022

34:03

In this episode, we chat about something very important to product businesses…one of the most important things you’ll need to create a high converting ecommerce site…

93: How this Skincare Business is Changing the World - Lily Yang

February 17th, 2022

46:01

If you’re just starting your product business, you’re going to love this episode.  This is a story of a former corporate executive who wanted to start her own brand to make a difference.  She is making a difference and …

92: How a Quiz can Rock Your Biz - Josh Haynam

February 10th, 2022

32:10

In past episodes, you may have heard me speaking about building your email list using quiz building tools.  The main platform I recommend is …

91: From Welfare to Millionaire - Sandy Forste

February 3rd, 2022

36:37

Have you heard about ‘manifesting wealth’, abundance, the Secret, and wonder if this is all just too good to be true or if it can work for you?

I had the honor of speaking with Sandy Forster, the money mindset mentor …

90: Creating a Greater Good - Madeleine Shaw

January 28th, 2022

49:46

This next guest is so impressive and a pioneer in many ways.  She thinks differently, she questions the status-quo, and she goes through uncharted territory.  

Madeleine Shaw is an award-winning serial social …

89: The Not-so-Lost Art of Letterpress - KJ Blattenbauer

January 20th, 2022

28:43

I love interviewing entrepreneurs, especially those who are new to their business and might be going through the same challenges and opportunities that you’re facing in your business.  Today, we’re chatting with KJ …

88: Starting your Side Hustle - Carrie Bohlig & Craig Clickner

January 13th, 2022

48:09

It’s not every day that I get to interview a power couple.  I loved this interview with Carrie Bohlig & Craig Clickner.  They are just the most down to earth entrepreneurs but I learned how impressive they are -  …

87: Maximizing your eCommerce Business - Chloë Thomas

January 6th, 2022

38:54

Welcome to the PP podcast and happy new year!  I hope that 2022 brings you so much joy, prosperity and good health.

It’s the first episode of the new year and we have some exciting guests for you this year.

I’m thrilled …

86: The Art of Tea and Personalized Experiences - Prati Bhatt

December 30th, 2021

45:10

This show is just a perfect introduction to 2022, as we reflect on who we are and who we want to be.

According to this week’s podcast guest, “The greatest risk you'll take is not risking anything and playing safe. …

85: Leadership Starts from Within - Lindsay White

December 23rd, 2021

39:07

When you have a small business, you may think that leadership is not as important or as valuable, but that couldn’t be farther from the truth.  

As …

84: Strategies for Getting Started on Amazon - Kristin Ostrander

December 16th, 2021

30:17

If you’ve wanted to get started on Amazon, we’ve got the perfect guest for you.

Kristin Ostrander is an author, serial entrepreneur, speaker, podcaster, and eCommerce expert. She founded MommyIncome.com and hosts a …

How Customer Engagement can be your Secret Sauce - Cheryl Mason

December 9th, 2021

37:09

Did you know that it costs five times as much to attract a new customer, than to keep an existing one?  

But most businesses focus on acquiring customers rather than nurturing current customers, thereby losing out on …

82: The Secrets to Getting Listed at Retailers

December 2nd, 2021

14:50

One of the most common questions I hear is ‘how do I get listed at the major retailers’?

For many people, getting listed at retailers, especially the large ones, seems daunting.  Approaching buyers and pitching to them …

81: 10 Lessons I’ve Learned as an Entrepreneur

November 26th, 2021

18:00

Entrepreneurship - it seems glamorous.  But when you peel back the curtain, it can get pretty messy.

Being a business owner has its highs and lows.  Some days, you feel like throwing in the towel or just going back to …

80: Pinterest for your Product Biz - Elaine Timms

November 18th, 2021

24:32

Have you ever wondered how Pinterest can help your product business?  

You might think that pinterest is just for creating crafts or planning a wedding.  But actually, did you know that  more than 200 billion pins have …

79: Follow the Intuitive Nudge - Beth Geddio, State of Being Co

November 11th, 2021

36:35

Have you ever had a creative nudge that won’t go away?  One that tugs on you, begging you to make it happen.  You make excuses for a while but you always wonder, what if?  Until you can’t resist anymore and you decide …

78. How to Drive More Sales on Your Ecommerce Site

November 4th, 2021

18:52

Tell me the truth 

Are you feeling like you aren’t getting the sales you expect on your website? Do you feel like you’re launching to crickets? 

 

Well you’re not alone here - this is one of the most common issues I …

77. Break Through the Black Friday Clutter

October 27th, 2021

25:21

This is one of the busiest times of the year for product businesses, and also one of the most cluttered.  It can be hard to break through all of the …

76. Could Feng Shui be the Missing Link in Your Business? - Patricia Lohan

October 21st, 2021

55:19

Want to get more flow in your business?  Are you feeling stuck?  Well, this next guest is going to help you with your “luck”.

Meet Patricia Lohan - Feng Shui Expert, Speaker and Author - who tells us about how we can …

75. Is your Copy Selling or Repelling? - Sara Vartanian

October 14th, 2021

39:34

Do you struggle with what to say when it comes to describing your brand and products on your website, in ads, in emails, or in general?  Many business owners pay a lot of attention to the visuals, but don’t pay as much …

74. Create a Love Story with your Brand - Marine Gargadennec

October 7th, 2021

34:50

“If the sale is a date, then the branding is the reason they would say yes.” - Marine Gargadennec, branding designer

In this episode, we speak with …

Get Ready for Q4 - Let’s Develop Your Plan Together

September 30th, 2021

26:49

Q4 is ahead of us - are you ready for the biggest season for product businesses? 

Recently, we hosted our first ‘Coffee and Cocktails’ session (our weekly live workshop) in the Productpreneur Community, and we chatted …

72. One of the Most Powerful Tools in your Marketing Toolkit - Email

September 23rd, 2021

20:06

In this episode, we dive into something that is super important but we don’t talk a lot about in the podcast - email marketing.  It is critical to your business success, considering the return on investment in email …

71. You are One Thought Away from your Next Breakthrough - Jarrod Haning

August 26th, 2021

43:48

We have got an exciting show today where we are going to dive deep into how changing the way we think can have a massive impact on our life and business.


You know how when you’re in the corn maze and you’re not sure if …

70. How SEO Can Help You Get More Customers, More Time and More Money - Jessica Morrison

August 19th, 2021

27:36

SEO is a mystery to many entrepreneurs.  Lots of business owners talk about social media and paid ads but not about Search engine optimization.  But did you know that if you do it properly, you can rank on the first …

69. Grow your Revenue Streams through Amazon - Verity Sewell

August 12th, 2021

1:02:32

Have you thought about expanding your business to Amazon but you’re not sure if it’s right for you?  Listen up because in this week’s episode, we speak with Amazon expert, Verity Sewell, who’s going to answer all of …

68. Launching and Growing a Product Business

August 5th, 2021

49:56

Launching and growing a product business can be really intimidating, so it’s my aim to make it more accessible to everyone.

I was recently interviewed by Verity Sewell, Amazon expert and coach, in her Facebook group and …

67. BURNOUT and What to Do About It

July 29th, 2021

19:17

We become entrepreneurs to be able to have more freedom in our lives - to have a flexible schedule, to answer to ourselves, not to ask permission to …

66. Working with the Circular Economy for a Better Planet and Business - Lindsey Boyle

July 22nd, 2021

59:35

It is no secret that climate change is upon us and we need to act now in order to save our planet.

According to the United Nations, 2010 to 2019 was the warmest decade ever recorded.  Weather patterns are changing, sea …

65. Getting Your Products Into the Hands of Celebrities - Sarah Shaw

July 15th, 2021

44:52

Getting your products into the hands of celebrities is going to catapult your brand visibility.  I have the pleasure of introducing you to Sarah …

64. Market Research for your Business

July 8th, 2021

19:23

How do you really get inside the heads of your consumers?  You need to speak to them and get feedback from them.  We think we know them but we may be guessing or going off our own preferences.

Leveraging market research …

63. Building a Joyful Business - Lianne Kim

July 1st, 2021

40:10

Looking to add more joy to your business?

I am thrilled to introduce you to an amazing business coach who is helping women have a more joyful and …

62. Leveraging TikTok for your Product Biz - Samantha Vlasceanu

June 24th, 2021

53:08

Well you might have heard about a little thing called TikTok.  Maybe you cringe at the thought of doing a dance video. You might think it’s just for your teen kids.  But actually, we’re going to talk all about WHY you, …

60. How this B-Corp Certified Fashion Company is Changing the Industry - Kristi Soomer

June 17th, 2021

41:16

Sustainability in the fashion industry is uncommon but highly necessary.

In this episode, we speak with an incredible product-preneur who is changing the fashion industry with innovative and sustainable ideas. 

Kristi …

61. Creating the Girl Gang Marketplace for Women Entrepreneurs - Jenni Bourque and Katie Conliffe

June 17th, 2021

29:11

In this episode, we hear from two fabulous ladies who are on a mission to help small, women-owned businesses thrive.

Jenni Bourque and Katie Conliffe …

60. How this B-Corp Certified Fashion Company is Changing the Industry - Kristi Soomer

June 10th, 2021

41:16

Sustainability in the fashion industry is uncommon but highly necessary.

In this episode, we speak with an incredible product-preneur who is changing the fashion industry with innovative and sustainable ideas. 

Kristi …

59. Grow your Visibility and Gain Credibility through PR- Susanne Fox

June 3rd, 2021

44:44

Leveraging Public Relations or Earned Media is one of the best ways to build awareness and instant credibility for your brand.

In this episode, we speak with an expert on this topic who is going to blow your mind with …

58. Launching a Smart Wearable Tech Product - Adrien Beyk

May 27th, 2021

50:20

“Idea is maybe 3-5% of the success of a company.  The rest of it is just execution”. - Adrien Beyk, Founder & CEO of Quanta Vici

If you’re thinking of launching a tech product, this episode is for you. 

In this …

57. Do THIS and Grow Your Company’s Value

May 20th, 2021

18:31

What is the ONE thing that you can do to increase your company’s value?

It’s not just launching a product.

It’s building a BRAND.

A brand is one of your most important assets.  It is the thing that delivers value above …

56. The Power of Intuition in the Creative Process - Katherine Earl

May 13th, 2021

49:51

I have the pleasure of introducing you to Katherine Earl.  Katherine and I met at a business group for moms and she reached out because she wanted some direction in her business. We had a ½ day strategy session and I …

55. How this Founder Grew her Food Startup to $100 Million in 3 Years - Suzie Yorke

May 6th, 2021

52:59

I’m excited to introduce you to this founder who launched a rocket ship food start-up brand, Love Good Fats, that just exceeded $100mil in Revenue in a little over 3 years!

Suzie Yorke is on a mission to bring healthy …

54. The Secrets to Building a Youtube Audience - Amber Lykins and Olivia Heyward

April 29th, 2021

55:17

Have you ever thought about leveraging Youtube to grow your business and whether it would be worth your time and investment?  Today we answer that …

53. How to Rank on Google Without Paying for Ads - John Vuong

April 22nd, 2021

44:43

If you’ve wondered how to rank better on Google Search without even paying a dime on ads, this episode is for you.  Today we hear from an SEO expert who shares his secrets to building strong SEO.

John Vuong is the owner …

52. Money Money Money! Become the CFO of Your Business - Melissa Houston

April 15th, 2021

34:46

It’s tax season and so many of us are looking at our finances from the past year, some of us for the first time.  So there is no better time than now to discuss finances.  We are going to hear from a Finance expert who …

51. From Youtube to Walmart Shelves - Keya James

April 8th, 2021

36:16

It’s always so inspiring to hear from an entrepreneur who organically grows their business from the ground up.

Keya James is Co-Founder and CEO Tailored Beauty, a suite of handmade products to help the entire family …

50. Leveraging Amazon Handmade to Build a 7-Figure Business - Dana Midkiff

April 1st, 2021

35:35

Pop the champagne!  Welcome to the big 5-0...Episode 50!  Thank you for supporting this podcast throughout its journey!

If you’re a maker or want to get into handmade goods, this next episode is for you.  

We speak with …

49. Let’s Make Your Price Right - Courtney Rogers

March 25th, 2021

31:06

One of the ‘4 P’s of marketing’ is pricing and there’s a good reason for that!  Pricing is key to building a profitable business and we are lucky to hear from pricing guru, Courtney Rogers.

Courtney Rogers is a pricing …

48. Dealing with Adversity and Loss - Shannon Hoverson

March 18th, 2021

41:28

Whether you’re an entrepreneur or not, struggling with adversity and loss is something that we all deal with at some point in our lives.

Today’s episode is extra special, as we hear from an incredible woman who has …

47. The Riches are in the Niches - Wicker Darling by Jasmine Norrie

March 11th, 2021

44:27

We have a fun episode for you.  If you think you have a niche business or are thinking of launching one, you’ve got to listen to this. 

Meet Jasmine Norrie, creator of Wicker Darling.  Wicker Darling was born from a …

46. From Tea Parties to a Multimillion Dollar Direct Sales Company - Tonia Jahshan

March 4th, 2021

52:34

Today’s guest is going to knock your socks off.  I had the honour of chatting with Tonia Jahshan, founder of Steeped Tea, now known as Sipology.

45. How a Product Business and Motherhood Can Go Hand in Hand

February 25th, 2021

48:55

I was recently interviewed by Nicole Cumberbatch on the Mamas Know Best _ We Got Something to Say podcast, and it was such a great conversation that …

44. How to Leverage Video to Grow your Product Business - Michelle Daides

February 18th, 2021

43:24

Have you thought about using video to grow your business but you’re too shy or you have no idea what to talk about on camera? After listening to …

43. How Faith in Business Can be Your Superpower - Lola Tomorrow

February 11th, 2021

1:03:50

Have you thought about how faith can help your business?  Do you feel like you have to keep it separate or hush hush?

This guest is about to change your perception of combining faith with business.  I have the pleasure …

42. Creating Botanical Wellness Products - Jazmine Stinson

February 4th, 2021

55:35

Are you curious about creating a product from scratch - actually create it with your own hands - and market it yourself?  Makers, creators, artists, …

41. Ideas, Inventions, and Retail - Leslie Mann

January 28th, 2021

1:02:15

Have you thought about creating a new invention but not sure what’s involved?  This guest is going to blow your mind with his knowledge of the …

40. Women Who Do Wonders - Pamela Bolado

January 22nd, 2021

47:32

It's January - Human Trafficking Awareness Month.  We’re taking a break from the product business focus and shifting gears for a good reason.

Meet …

39. BONUS Episode - What’s it Like in the Product Pathway

January 19th, 2021

34:56

I’m excited to share this bonus episode where I speak with one of my course students, and wonderful client, Elle Milaras.  We talk about her journey …

38. How to Come Up With a Winning Idea

January 14th, 2021

24:07

You may have thought about launching a product but you’re just not sure what to launch.  

In this episode, I share how to come up with a winning …

37. Mastering Your Motherhood Jungle - Tiana Fech of the Part-Time Jungle

January 7th, 2021

42:05

We don’t talk enough about the fact that many of us are juggling business and motherhood.  It’s certainly a jungle out there and you’re going to hear from the expert on mastering the motherhood jungle.

In this episode, …

36. Plan Your Best Year Yet

December 31st, 2020

24:51

Happy New Year!  Who else is pumped for 2021?

This episode is my gift to you for 2021.  It’s a very special episode where we reflect on 2020 and plan for 2021.   If you do the exercises, you’ll come out of it with a …

35. Launching a Baby Brand - Autumn Garden of Little + Knotty

December 24th, 2020

46:51

First of all, I wish you a Merry Christmas and a wonderful holiday with your family!  Thank you for listening to this podcast and I'm so grateful …

34. Protecting Your Trademarks - Cynthia Mason

December 17th, 2020

42:43

Have you wondered if it is time to register your trademarks but you’re just not sure when is the right time and if it’s worth the investment?  Do you know if your brand is even a candidate to be protected?

In this …

33. Building a CBD Skincare Line - Sunandini Verma

December 10th, 2020

49:33

Did you know about the benefits of having CBD in skin care?  This entrepreneur has jumped on the opportunity of combining this new, hot ingredient …

32. Building Your Aligned Brand - Nathalie Amlani and Erin Dean Williams

December 3rd, 2020

39:07

“Branding encompasses so many elements that all contribute to both your personal growth and your business growth.  It’s the emotional connection and experience that someone makes with your brand.  It’s making people …

31. Rising Above Poverty to Build a Successful Jewelry Brand - Lia Valencia Key

November 26th, 2020

53:36

It is an honor and a privilege to introduce this VERY special guest, Lia Valencia Key, founder of VALENCIA KEY Jewelry.  From growing up in a homeless shelter to rising above her circumstances and growing a wildly …

30. Launching a Sustainable Fashion Brand - Shannon Lohr

November 19th, 2020

37:25

Last week, we had the cofounders of Skoki conscious kids apparel on the show. Along with the theme of sustainable fashion, in this interview, we …

29. Launching a Luxury Kids' Apparel Brand - Skoki Co

November 12th, 2020

43:25

Ever thought about launching a fashion brand?  You’ll love this episode!

 

Diana Gelfand, Milly Doz and Renata Aysina are the co-founders of Skoki, a luxury children's apparel and accessories brand. Skoki is a female …

28. Serial Food Entrepreneur Launches Plant-based Delivery: Madi Warnock

November 5th, 2020

54:32

In this episode, we interview a young serial entrepreneur who founded three successful food companies, including her most recent one launching during …

Saving our Oceans and Kids with Stainless Sea: Dr Jocelin McLeod

October 29th, 2020

41:49

It’s no secret that plastics are not only harming our oceans, but also our health.

 

Dr. Jocelin McLeod is aiming to do something about this issue with her new social enterprise, Stainless Sea.


Stainless Sea is a new …

Inventing Clasp Magic: Alison Brett

October 22nd, 2020

47:49

Has this happened to you...you’re getting ready for work or an evening out and you’re struggling with putting on your bracelet.  That clasp just won’t attach. You’re in a rush and you don’t really have time for this!  …

Is the Subscription Box Right for your Business?

October 15th, 2020

14:51

Last week, we spoke with Heidi Avery about her new subscription box, Ruby Crate.

Many of you have been asking if a subscription model is right for your product business.  In this episode, we answer all of your questions …

Creating the Ruby Crate Subscription Box: Heidi Avery

October 8th, 2020

47:50

You name it….there’s a subscription box for that!

 

With many subscription boxes marketed towards women, Heidi Avery, mom of teen girl, Sienna Ruby, …

Inventing a Safer Way to Grate: Lori Turk

October 1st, 2020

57:06

Let me ask you a question - Have you or someone you know cut themselves in the kitchen recently grating or slicing food? 

In this episode, Lori Turk, Owner of April Ideas & Inventor of the SAFEGRATE™ kitchen gadget, …

Perfectly Imperfect Social: Kirsten Jordan

September 24th, 2020

45:07

You’re about to create a video for social.  You’ve got butterflies.  You’ve done your hair, makeup and you’ve rehearsed your lines.  You hit record and then … you forget what to say, stumble over your words and end up …

A little bit better mindset: Chris Swail

September 17th, 2020

33:48

Last week, I spoke about having the right launch mindset.  Along the same theme, this week, we are speaking about a healthy mindset for everyday life that will set you up for success in business, relationships and …

The Launch Mindset

September 10th, 2020

14:30

I’m not ready.  

It’s not perfect yet.  

I don’t know how.  

Sound familiar?
These are all of the mindset struggles I went through while recently launching my first online course, The Product Pathway.  And I’m sure these …

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