Cover art for podcast The Derivative

The Derivative

110 EpisodesProduced by RCM AlternativesWebsite

Welcome to The Derivative by RCM Alternatives, where we dive into what makes alternative investments go, analyze the strategies of unique hedge fund managers, and chat with interesting guests from across the investment world. Hosted by RCM Managing Partner, Jeff Malec, join us to take a ride through… read more


The Kaoboy of Convertible Arb with Michael Kao

Saddle up everybody, because we’ve got the UrbanKaoboy on this episode, who’s ridden everything from ponies to draft horses to mustangs over his 30+ years in the investment game, doing commodities and derivatives at Goldman in the 90s, risk arb at Canyon Partners, and then opportunistic/value at his own fund Akanthos Cap Mgmt, before hanging up his spurs and focusing on running his own family office. We’re talking with Michael Kao about the credit culture in LA investment firms, trading the Goldman roll in commodities, how corporate debt = short puts and equity = long calls, the trading pits, finding long gamma in a short gamma arb strategy, convertible bonds, arb trade structures, Star Wars, pricing synthetic options, credit spreads blowing out, needing good marginability, Michael Saylor's diamond hands, the potential train wreck that is MSTR's balance sheet, and more. This was a fascinating look into the mind of an opportunistic investor.



02:25-13:41=Drexel, LA, and the Goldman Commodity Roll

13:42-36:50=Canyon, Akanthos, and Convertible Arb

36:51-55:45=MSTR, Saylor, and the Capital Structure

55:46-01:01:19=Tokenized Residential Real Estate

01:01:20-01:08:02=Star Wars Fanboy

Follow along with Michael Kao on twitter @UrbanKaoboy 

And last but not least, don't forget to subscribe to The Derivative, and follow us on Twitter, and our host Jeff at @AttainCap2 or LinkedIn, and Facebook, and sign-up for our blog digest.

And visit our sponsor, the CME Group at to learn more about futures and options.

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as legal, business, or tax advice. All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of RCM Alternatives, their affiliates, or companies featured. Due to industry regulations, participants on this podcast are instructed not to make specific trade recommendations, nor reference past or potential profits. And listeners are reminded that managed futures, commodity trading, and other alternative investments are complex and carry a risk of substantial losses. As such, they are not suitable for all investors. For more information, visit

Educational emoji reaction


Interesting emoji reaction


Funny emoji reaction


Agree emoji reaction


Love emoji reaction


Wow emoji reaction


Are you the creator of this podcast?

Verify your account

and pick the featured episodes for your show.

Listen to The Derivative


A free podcast app for iPhone and Android

  • User-created playlists and collections
  • Download episodes while on WiFi to listen without using mobile data
  • Stream podcast episodes without waiting for a download
  • Queue episodes to create a personal continuous playlist
RadioPublic on iOS and Android
Or by RSS
RSS feed

Connect with listeners

Podcasters use the RadioPublic listener relationship platform to build lasting connections with fans

Yes, let's begin connecting
Browser window

Find new listeners

  • A dedicated website for your podcast
  • Web embed players designed to convert visitors to listeners in the RadioPublic apps for iPhone and Android
Clicking mouse cursor

Understand your audience

  • Capture listener activity with affinity scores
  • Measure your promotional campaigns and integrate with Google and Facebook analytics
Graph of increasing value

Engage your fanbase

  • Deliver timely Calls To Action, including email acquistion for your mailing list
  • Share exactly the right moment in an episode via text, email, and social media
Icon of cellphone with money

Make money

  • Tip and transfer funds directly to podcastsers
  • Earn money for qualified plays in the RadioPublic apps with Paid Listens