Cover art for podcast "Out of the Main" - A Yacht Rock Podcast

"Out of the Main" - A Yacht Rock Podcast

98 EpisodesProduced by Tom Nixon and John NixonWebsite

"Out of the Main" is a yacht rock podcast celebrating the past, presence—and, yes!—the future of one of the most proficient and accomplished eras of musicianship and studio production...perhaps ever. Out of the Main was launched by two of the genre’s biggest fans—both musicians themselves—who, like … read more

98 Episodes | 2020 - 2022

Episode 22.30: Paying Tribute, with the Docksiders

August 11th, 2022


John and Tom go “in the trenches” with the founder and producer of “America’s Favorite Yacht Rock Band,” The Docksiders, Kevin Sucher and his …

Episode 22.29: Trapped in Isolation: “Rosanna”

August 4th, 2022


In an all-new “Song Focus” episode, John and Tom examine and analyze Toto’s “Rosanna” using isolated recordings of each instrument, track by glorious …

Episode 22.28: The Vocal Stylings of Yacht Rock (and more)

July 28th, 2022


As requested by a listener, Tom and John provide their analysis on how vocals were recorded, arranged, performed and mixed during the era we commonly associate as the yacht rock years, including that of artists off of …

Episode 22.27: Perfect 10s

July 21st, 2022


We asked the people, and the people responded! “What are your ‘Perfect 10’ yacht rock albums? Does this mean perfectly yachty or yachty albums that are perfect top-to-bottom? You decide! Tune in to hear what we heard …

Episode 22.26: Lance Hoppen of Orleans

July 14th, 2022


Taking a quick breather from Orleans’s current national tour, current frontman and long-time bassist Lance Hoppen joins Tom and John to talk past, present and future of an iconic fixture of West Coast AOR. Fun facts …

Episode 22.25: Viewer Mail

July 7th, 2022


Tom and John reach into the Viewer Mailbag to field questions from the listening audience. Thanks for sending us your suggestions for this #AskUsAnything episode, and keep the mail coming!

Listen in to see if they …

Episode 22.24: Distant Cousin City Pop, with Van Paugam

June 30th, 2022


John and Tom are joined by DJ Van Paugam, a subject matter expert on yacht rock’s distant cousin known as City Pop. Contemporary to our favorite genre, City Pop was born in Japan in the mid-70s, with a heyday that …

Episode 22.23: What is Proto-Yacht?

June 23rd, 2022


An in-depth look at the origin, history and definition of what has come to be known as “proto-yacht” in the yacht rock circles, as originally defined by the creators of Yacht Rock. John and Tom try to identify the “Big …

Episode 22.22: What Was I Thinking?!

June 16th, 2022


Nearly three years after embarking on a journey to explore, discover and celebrate yacht rock, John and Tom pause to reflect on what they’ve learned, how they’ve grown, and where they currently stand on “Yacht …

Episode 22.21: Inside MusiCast’s Rick Such and Eddy Cabello

June 9th, 2022


Alternatively dubbed “Brothers from Others’ Mothers,” this week’s episode welcomes fellow lovers of Westcoast music (and more!) to the podcast to hear the fascinating history behind Inside MusiCast. If you love music …

Episode 22.20: The Game Show’s Dramatic Conclusion

June 2nd, 2022


Tune in for the dramatic conclusion of the Out of the Main Game Show with Part 2! Tom and John battle it out for maritime supremacy...who will be left standing? Play along and test your knowledge of #yachtrock, the …

Episode 22.19: Return of the Out of the Main Game Show!

May 26th, 2022


The “Out of the Main” Game Show returns for a second season! John and Tom return to their late-70s-themed game show concept, complete with guessing games and yachtski scale face-offs, with the winner earning the right …

Episode 22.18: Ambrosia’s Burleigh Drummond

May 19th, 2022


Tom and John welcome founding member and all-time drummer of one our favorite bands, Ambrosia, Burleigh Drummond to the podcast! They’re out on the road this summer and throughout 2022, which his where we start. Then, …

Episode 22.17: Unsung Heroes: Jerry Hey

May 12th, 2022


A session cat’s session cat, Jerry Hey’s imprint and impact on yacht rock is undeniable. John and Tom guide you on a pleasure tour through the era-relevant history and vast catalogue of one of the most talented and …

Episode 22.16: Song Focus: Ambrosia’s “Biggest Part of Me”

May 5th, 2022


In what will be the first of a new series, Tom and John launch their first-ever “Song Focus” episode, dissecting and discussing Ambrosia’s masterpiece “Biggest Part of Me.” We take a high-level look at the song …

Episode 22.15: All Over the Map: “We Are the World”

April 28th, 2022


John and Tom were so taken with the making of “We Are the World” documentary, they just had to cover it on the podcast. Though the song itself is not yachty, there are a surprising amount of tie-ins to yacht rock, which …

Episode 22.14: Starbuck’s Bruce Blackman

April 21st, 2022


Meet the man behind the yacht rock classic “Moonlight Feels Right” (amongst MANY buried treasures!), Bruce Blackman, who lead and founded the band …

Episode 22.13: Bill and Tamara Champlin, Part 2

April 14th, 2022


Part 2 of our interview with Bill Champlin and Tamara Champlin picks back up on location before a yacht rock tribute live show in Dayton Ohio — “We Will Yacht You.” We start with some Chicago history then move forward …

Episode 22.12: The Champ(s)!

April 7th, 2022


Tom and John catch up with Bill Champlin and Tamara Champlin on location before a yacht rock tribute live show in Dayton Ohio — “We Will Yacht You.” Listen in to clips from their conversation: everything from singing …

Episode 22.11: Buried Treasures, with Chris Christian

March 31st, 2022


Will buried treasures never cease? No, thankfully! Chris Christian has one of the most remarkable career stories you’ll ever hear—one that includes a …

Episode 22.10: The Healing Power of Music, with Vernon Porter and TJ George

March 24th, 2022


Treat yourself to an incredible story, an important cause, and an amazing lineup of personnel, collaborating to make a beautifully written and …

Episode 22.9: High Adventure, Side B, with Tris Imboden

March 17th, 2022


We flipped the record over and broke down Side B of Kenny Loggins’ High Adventure album with legendary drummer Tris Imboden himself. Who better to dissect a masterpiece with than a member of the band who performed on …

Episode 22.8: High Adventure, with Tris Imboden

March 10th, 2022


Legendary drummer Tris Imboden rejoins the podcast to help Tom and John on a special album focus, breaking down Kenny Loggins’ High Adventure album. Who better to dissect a masterpiece with than a member of the band who …

Episode 22.7: Carrying the Torch, with Peter Friestedt

March 3rd, 2022


If you haven’t explored the connection between yacht rock’s past and the current works of Peter Friestedt, you’re in for a treat! Peter is a modern-day artist who serves as the bridge from yesteryear to today, …

Episode 22.6: Tommy Taylor of Christopher Cross, Part 2

February 24th, 2022


John and Tom welcome back Tommy Taylor for part 2 of our interview with, most notably, the drummer for the Christopher Cross band, to the podcast for a two-part conversation that spans Tommy’s career before, during and …

Episode 22.5: Guest Tommy Taylor of Christopher Cross

February 17th, 2022


We are thrilled to welcome Tommy Taylor, most notably known to the yacht rock community as the drummer for the Christopher Cross band, to the podcast for a two-part conversation that spans Tommy’s career before, during …

Episode 22.4: The Jay Graydon Grand Finale

February 10th, 2022


The third and final installment of our marathon conversation with yacht rock legend Jay Graydon—more stories, more insights, more laughs, more …

Episode 22.3: Jay Graydon, Part 2

February 3rd, 2022


John and Tom continue their conversation with Jay Graydon—composer, producer, session musician, artist...the list goes on and on.

Highlights from …

Episode 22.2: Special Guest, Jay Graydon

January 27th, 2022


John and Tom were absolutely gobsmacked to welcome 12-time Grammy nominated, 2-time Grammy winning, and all around legend of music Jay Graydon to the …

Episode 22.1: The Day the Yacht Sank

January 20th, 2022


Tom and John kick off Season 3 of “Out of the Main” exploring when, why and how yacht rock went the way of the dodo (at least temporarily) in 1985. What was the day our favorite music died, and what killed it? …

Episode 21.51: Holiday Reruns - The Christmas Special!

December 20th, 2021


Our favorite convention from the late 70s and early 80s: Everything had a Christmas Special! And every year, they would rerun the same holiday …

Episode 21.50: Odds and Ends

December 16th, 2021


To wrap up Season Two of “Out of the Main,” Tom and John clear the decks (ding!) of various notes and conversation topics they’ve been collecting all …

Episode 21.49: Peter Beckett’s Player, Part 2

December 9th, 2021


Part 2 of our interview with Peter Beckett, the voice of yacht rock supergroup Player, is the subject of this week’s podcast, one of our favorites to …

Episode 21.48: Peter Beckett, the Voice of Player

December 2nd, 2021


John and Tom are thrilled to welcome Peter Beckett, founding member and lead singer of the legendary yacht rock band Player, to the podcast. Back on the road appearing as Peter Beckett’s Player, the composer and singer …

Episode 21.47: Off the Map (What You’re Missing)

November 24th, 2021


A whole episode devoted to our Lightning Round concept of “Off the Map.” What do you miss when you’re only listening to yacht rock? What bands, …

Episode 21.46: Lost in the Shuffle

November 18th, 2021


Let’s break down one of the essential elements of yacht rock: the half-time shuffle. With roots in swing music and early rock and roll, the straight …

Episode 21.45: The Finals of the NIT Presented by August Red!

November 11th, 2021


Join us for the finals of Nyacht Invitational Tournament (NIT), presented by August Red. How did your bracket compare? Who was crowned the yachtiest of the nyachtiest? Did the prediction of Tommy the Swami come true? …

Episode 21.44: Round 2 of the Nyacht Invitational Tournament Presented by August Red!

November 4th, 2021


Round 2 of Nyacht Invitational Tournament (NIT), brought to you by August Red, marches forward. We’re letting 68 nyacht rock songs—the perennial also-rans of yacht rock-dom—face off in a tournament of attrition to see …

Episode 21.43: Round 1, Part 2 of the NIT!

October 28th, 2021


We did our March Yachtness Tournment in the spring, now its time for its lower-card counterpart, the Nyacht Invitational Tournament (NIT), brought to you by August Red. We’re letting 68 nyacht rock songs—the perennial …

Episode 21.42: Welcome to the NIT!

October 21st, 2021


We did our March Yachtness Tournment in the spring, now its time for its under-card counterpart, the Nyacht Invitational Tournament (NIT), brought to you by August Red. We’re letting 68 nyacht rock songs—the perennial …

Episode 21.41: Special Guest Derek Holt of Climax Blues Band

October 14th, 2021


The story you’ve never heard about the rise, the success, and the ultimate break up of the original Climax Blues Band has way more twists and turns …

Episode 21.40: Album Focus: Boz Scaggs’ Silk Degrees

October 7th, 2021


We couldn’t do a series on album focuses without hitting on the iconic Silk Degrees album from Boz Scaggs. Listen in as John and Tom dissect and …

Episode 21.39: An Interview with Marc Jordan

September 30th, 2021


If you even scratch the surface trying to explore the essence of true yacht rock, it won’t be long until you discover Marc Jordan. John and Tom had the privilege of chatting with Marc to hear his story, from the …

Episode 21.38: Bill Schnee, Part 2

September 23rd, 2021


Part 2 of our interview with Bill Schnee: John and Tom have the privilege and honor of welcoming legendary producer, engineer, mixer and genius mastermind Bill Schnee to the podcast. Discussing his yacht rock career and …

Episode 21.37: Chairman at the Board, Bill Schnee

September 15th, 2021


John and Tom have the privilege and honor of welcoming legendary producer, engineer, mixer and genius mastermind Bill Schnee to the podcast. Discussing his yacht rock career and beyond (before and after), we cover the …

Ep. 21.36: Before, During and After, with Franke, John and Stacy

September 9th, 2021


In an episode that focuses on the art of songwriting, John and Tom are joined by three decorated song writers whose paths crossed in various interesting ways, starting in the yacht rock era: Franke Previte, John …

Episode 21.35: Near Misses

September 2nd, 2021


The co-captains are feeling a little nyachty this week, as we segue out of the safe harbors of summer yacht rock season and into chillier climes of a …

Episode 21.34: Carrying the Torch, with NuCoast Breeze’s Erik Mattox

August 26th, 2021


Subject matter expert Erik Mattox from NuCoast Breeze and Westcoast Breeze joins the podcast to dive deep into the modern yacht rock artists who are carrying the torch from the keepers of the fire of yesteryear, …

Episode 21.33: Hyacht Takes

August 19th, 2021


Inspired by a recent episode of Rick Beato’s YouTube series, a session they called “Better or Worse,” John and Tom tee up debatable statements for your and their consideration and arguing. Not hot takes…but Hyacht …

Episode 21.32: Tris Imboden, Part Two

August 12th, 2021


Part two of our conversation with legendary session and touring drummer Tris Imboden. In this installment, learn more about the Chicago years and since, including a major announcement about what's happening now!

Things …

Episode 21.31: Keeping the Fire, with Tris Imboden

August 5th, 2021


Legendary session and touring drummer Tris Imboden climbs aboard the yacht rock podcast, “Out of the Main,” to discuss the yacht rock years, what’s …

Episode 21.30: Gaucho Album Focus, Chapter 2

July 29th, 2021


A continuation of last week’s episode is Chapter 2 of John’s and Tom’s deep dive into the mastery, history and lustery of Steely Dan’s “Gaucho.” Check out the album’s place in the yacht rock pantheon this week on the …

Episode 21.29: Album Focus: Steely Dan’s Gaucho

July 22nd, 2021


John and Tom book-end their Aja album focus episode with an episode diving deep into the mastery, history and lustery of Steely Dan’s “Gaucho.” Check out the album’s place in the yacht rock pantheon this week on the Out …

Episode 21.28: It’s the Out of the Main Game Show!

July 15th, 2021


John and Tom launch their late-70s-themed game show, complete with guessing games and yachtski scale face-offs, with the winner earning the right to play in the Lightning Round. Come on down, and play along with your …

Episode 21.27: Ted Templeman Book, Chapter 2

July 8th, 2021


Part 2 of the conversation about “Ted Templeman: A Platinum Producer’s Life in Music.” John regales Tom with countless stories and factoids, …

Episode 21.26: Producer Focus: Ted Templeman

July 1st, 2021


The guys return to the “Out of the Main” Book Club, upon John completing his read of “Ted Templeman: A Platinum Producer’s Life in Music.” Tom is regaled with countless stories and factoids, including a very interesting …

Episode 21.25: Top Ten, One Year Later

June 24th, 2021


Approaching the one-year anniversary of the launch of Out of the Main, Tom and John count down their Top 10 lists as they exist today to examine how they compare and contrast to what their Top 10 lists may have looked …

Episode 21.24: Who Wore It Best?

June 17th, 2021


John and Tom bring four #yachtrock standards onto the red carpet this week on the #podcast, comparing and contrasting to determine: “Who Wore It Best?”

Any disagreements? Let us know on Facebook!

Episode 21.23: Yacht Disco

June 10th, 2021


Tom and John travel out of the safe harbor of yacht rock to explore an adjacent sub-genre known as Yacht Disco.

Any Yacht Disco experts out there? Let us know on Facebook!

Episode 21.22: Album Focus: “Christopher Cross”

June 3rd, 2021


Tom and John do their deep dive into an iconic record, Christopher Cross’s debut album. Plus, another major announcement? And somebody’s gonna Make. Their. Case!

What are your takes on “Christopher Cross?” Let us know …

Episode 21.21: Special Guest, John Hall of Orleans

May 27th, 2021


John Hall, founding member, lead singer and guitarist from Orleans, joins the podcast to discuss his newest release, the “yacht rock years,” and everything that’s happened in between, including rejoining Orleans and …

Episode 21.20: As Seen on TV

May 20th, 2021


Returning to a "Catch of the Day” show we aired several weeks prior, John and Tom dive back into the cultural phenomenon that was sweeping the …

Episode 21.19: Kenny vs. Michael, in the Octagon!

May 13th, 2021


Kenny Loggins versus Michael McDonald—who you got?! Tom and John debate the pros and cons, scoring the yacht rock face-off of the century. Who will win this Battle Royale? Will it be a cage match? Two enter…will only …

Episode 21.18: Dane Donohue & Keith Barry, Part 2

May 6th, 2021


Tune into the podcast for Part 2 of our interview with yacht rock legend Dane Donohue discussing life after rock and roll, his big break, the making …

Episode 21.17: Special Guests Dane Donohue and Keith Barry

April 29th, 2021


Yacht rock legend Dane Donohue joins the podcast to discuss life after rock and roll, his big break, the making of a masterpiece with hall of famers, …

Episode 21.16: Make the Case! (Maiden Voyage)

April 22nd, 2021


It’s time…to MAKE. YOUR. CASE! John and Tom explore a new trading channel, as they embark on a new maiden voyage to discuss whether and how people …

Episode 21.15: Yacht Country, Y’all!

April 15th, 2021


Howdy, pardners! John and Tom go west (young men) to explore the final frontier of yacht rock: yacht country! Pull up an empty whiskey barrel, kick …

Episode 21.14: Best Solos, Non-Guitar

April 8th, 2021


We covered our take on the best guitar solos of all time in Episode 21.6, now it’s time to devote a whole yacht rock podcast episode to the best …

Episode 21.13: Fool’s Gold

April 1st, 2021


Who better to talk to about the genesis, proliferation and ubiquity of the “foolish” concept in yacht rock song titles and lyrics?

Things Discussed:

Episode 21.12: March Yachtness Tourney Finals, with John O'Grady

March 25th, 2021


It's time to crown a champion! Who will sail on from The Smooth Sixteen to the Finals?! Will it be a Cinderella Story or an Aqua-Blue Blood? Was First Mate John's sealed-envelope prediction correct?

John O'Grady from

Episode 21.11: Round 2 of March Yachtness!

March 18th, 2021


Round 2 of the March Yachtness tournament to see who will move on to The Smooth Sixteen! Who are the Cinderella Stories surviving The Round of 32, and which Aqua-Blue Bloods will have their brackets busted? Will Tom …

Episode 21.10: More March Yachtness! (Round 1, Part 2)

March 11th, 2021


Part 2 of Round 1 of the 64-song March Yachtness tournament invites guest Jared Correia on the show to help John and Tom determine which yacht rock tune is the yachtiest of all time. Which songs were the “The Fatal …

Episode 21.9: It’s Time for March Yachtness!

March 4th, 2021


It’s March! Time for the 64-song tournament to see which yacht rock tune is the yachtiest of all time! Which songs were the “The Fatal Four” — aka, the “first four out?” Who will move on to The Smooth Sixteen? Who are …

Episode 21.8: Book Club - Steve Lukather’s “The Gospel According to Luke”

February 25th, 2021


John provides an overview and encapsulation of his second reading of “The Gospel According to Luke,” authored by Toto’s Steve Lukather. The memoir …

Episode 21.7: Pick Three

February 18th, 2021


You know the convention: "You're on a desert island, and you can only pick three..." Well, if you spend enough time on a yacht, this just may become a reality! So to prepare you for the inevitable, John and Tom stump …

Episode 21.6: Yacht Rock's Best Guitar Solos of All Time

February 11th, 2021


John and Tom scour the sea charts to find yacht rock's best guitar solos of all time. Who made the cut? Who are the true guitar heroes? How many …

Episode 21.5: The Mt. Rushmore of Yacht Rock Albums

February 4th, 2021


It’s back! We’re going back to the mountain, for an all-new yacht rock podcast debating the Mt. Rushmore of albums, sliced three ways:

  1. The most …

Episode 21.4: Album Focus, Toto IV

January 28th, 2021


John and Tom are back with another album focus, this time devoting an entire episode of the yacht rock podcast to perhaps Toto’s signature release, Toto IV. From historical significance to track-by-track analysis, …

Episode 21.3: How Swede It Is, with State Cows

January 21st, 2021


Stefan Olofsson and Daniel Anderson from modern yacht group State Cows, out of Sweden, join Tom and John to discuss's yacht rock's inordinate appeal in the Nordic region, especially in Sweden itself. Why is a …

Episode 21.2: That is NYACHT!

January 14th, 2021


Yacht or Nyacht? Isn’t that everyone’s favorite game to play? How do you objectively determine what’s in a genre that is largely “made up” and only retroactively applied? Well, people have their ways, and there are some …

Episode 21.1: Mt. Rushmore, Vol. 2 - Bands!

January 7th, 2021


First we did our Yacht Rock Mt. Rushmore, no holds barred. Then we cleared the board and said, “No repeats! Only one front man, guitarist, etc., …

Episode 20.17: The Christmas Special!

December 17th, 2020


Our favorite convention from the late 70s and early 80s: Everything had a Christmas Special! Our yacht rock podcast should be no different! John and …

Episode 20.16: Buried Treasures, Vol. 2 - “Uncharted Waters”

December 10th, 2020


On this episode of the yacht rock podcast, John and Tom go deep-sea diving once again, this time in search of buried treasures that are lost in depths of the Yacht Rock blue bounding main. These are songs that perhaps …

Episode 20.15: Buried Treasures, Vol. 1 - "Hidden in Plain Sight"

December 3rd, 2020


John and Tom hop in the boat and go exploring…deep-sea diving for deep cuts. “Hidden in Plain Sight” are buried treasures that are performed by acts with deep Yacht Rock catalogues, but songs that, for some reason, are …

Episode 20.14: With Michael Atilano of Yacht Rock and Yachtical

November 24th, 2020


Michael Atilano, the founder of the Yacht Rock Facebook group, joins the show to discuss the avid community of yacht rockers who make up a special tribe of aficionados looking to explore the bounding main of yacht rock!

Episode 20.13: Special Guests, Firefall

November 19th, 2020


Jock Bartley (lead guitar, lead vocal) and Mark Andes (bass, vocals), two of the original members of Firefall, join the yacht rock podcast to talk about their first new album in 25 years: "Comet," released December 11, …

Episode 20.12: One-Bar Wonders

November 12th, 2020


You’ve heard of “one-hit wonders,” now let’s revel in “one-BAR wonders” of the Yacht Rock genre! Co-captains Tom and John each share their top 10 lists of their favorite one-bar wonders.

What are one-bar wonders, you …

Episode 20.11: How It’s Made

November 5th, 2020


Riffing off the popular Discovery Network show, “How It’s Made,” John and Tom take an “Inside Baseball” — er, Inside YACHT ROCK! — look at the tricks …

Episode 20.10: The Women of Yacht Rock, with John O'Grady of Milwaukee Yacht Rock

October 29th, 2020


If Christopher Cross and Michael McDonald are the captains of the boat, who are the “maidens of the voyage?” John O’Grady, founder of Milwaukee Yacht Rock and creator of the Hot SchYachts, joins the yacht rock podcast …

Episode 20.9: Confess Your Guilty Pleasures!

October 22nd, 2020


It's time to confess your guilty pleasures! While some may say an admission of an adoration for the Yacht Rock genre could, itself, be a confession …

Episode 20.8: Album Focus: Aja, Steely Dan

October 15th, 2020


John and Tom take a deep dive into one of the most icon rock records of all time, and certainly one of the most classic of the Yacht Rock genre, …

Episode 20.7: Special Guests, Yacht Rock Miami

October 8th, 2020


The boat gets a couple extra co-captains on this episode of “Out of the Main,” as Captain Juan Luv and Captain G, co-founders of Internet streaming radio station Yacht Rock Miami, join John and Tom on the yacht rock …

Episode 20.6: Yacht Rock’s Mount Rushmore

October 1st, 2020


John and Tom each take their shot at erecting the Mount Rushmore of Yacht Rock, once with no rules nor holds barred, but also a second time with a …

Episode 20.5: What’s Happening Now

September 23rd, 2020


Co-captains John and Tom explore the modern (yes, the modern) landscape of Yacht Rock, including brand new artists putting out new music, and the resurgence of Yacht Rock’s all stars getting back into the studio. Check …

Episode 20.4: Building the Yacht Rock Supergroup

September 17th, 2020


John and Tom build the ultimate Yacht Rock supergroup, filling out the band position by position:

  • Drummer
  • Keyboards
  • Guitar
  • Bass
  • Lead singer

Episode 20.3: Variations on a Theme

August 20th, 2020


The deeper you dive, the more you explore. And if you’re looking for buried treasure, look no further than the extended catalogues of the artists you already know, and you will fall in love with what John calls “Yacht …

Episode 20.2: What Makes This Yacht Rock Great?

August 20th, 2020


With much respect to Rick Beato and his “What Makes This Song Great” YouTube series, John and Tom take a close look at the elements of Yacht Rock …

Episode 20.1: Origin Stories

August 15th, 2020


Co-hosts John and Tom kick off "Out of the Main" by exploring origin stories. Everyone has their own personal origin story: how you discovered Yacht Rock, where you were, what happened next, and where you are today. But …

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