Cover art for podcast Healing Justice Podcast

Healing Justice Podcast

118 EpisodesProduced by Kate Werning - Social Justice Organizer & Trainer; Healing PractitionerWebsite

Healing Justice Podcast is a virtual practice space, bridging conversations at the intersections of collective healing & social change. Hosted by organizer and healing practitioner Kate Werning, each week we share a conversation with a powerful social justice leader, and an accompanying audio practi… read more


42 Practice: The Do-Over with Idelisse Malavé and Joanne Sandler

In this practice, Joanne and Idelisse offer a writing exercise called "The Do-Over" to help process experiences of bias and discrimination, and to seed creativity and reflection. It connects the personal and political, and can be done alone or in a group. You'll need a piece of paper and something to write with.


CONVERSATION: Download the episode prior to this one to hear Joanne & Idelisse talk about aging in the movement. They tell us about the secrets of bitchcraft, the importance of friendship and creativity, being unapologetically yourself, trusting yourself and others, tender transparency, the importance of having friends in every decade of life, play, and therapy (well maybe - that last one is contested). Subscribe/follow this podcast to make sure you never miss an entertaining & insightful conversation!



Idelisse Malavé, 71, has been honing her bitchcraft for decades. A working class Puerto Rican immigrant raised in a middle-class, mostly Jewish, Brooklyn neighborhood, she graduated from Columbia Law School, defying expectations of who and what she could be to become a fierce social justice activist. After practicing public interest law in the 70s and 80s, she went on to lead progressive organizations – as Vice President of the Ms. Foundation and Executive Director of Tides Foundation – and wrote two books, Mother Daughter Revolution (Bantam) and Latino Stats (The New Press). Her motto these days is: “If it pleases me, I will.”

Joanne Sandler, 67, is on an endless journey to find her bitchy voice. She’s written articles and books like Gender at Work (Routledge), How Feminists Change Bureaucracies and Bureaucracies Change Feminists (Oxford Press), Women’s Rights Have No Country (OpenDemocracy). A lifelong feminist, Joanne was ‘institutionalized’ for nearly two decades (as Deputy Executive Director of the UN Development Fund for Women-UNIFEM -- and many other women’s rights organizations). She’s traveled to more than 65 countries and now consults with Gender at Work. Her lifelong motto still applies ”Always leave while you’re still having a good time!”

Together, Idelisse and Joanne host a podcast called Two Old Bitches. Learn more at



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Thank you to our production team on this episode: Rachel Ishikawa for editing, Zach Meyer at the COALROOM for audio production and mastering, and Josiah Werning for graphic design.

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