Cover art for podcast Find The Outside

Find The Outside

79 EpisodesProduced by Tim Merry & Tuesday Ryan-HartWebsite

A lively, off-the-cuff conversation hosted by Tuesday Ryan-Hart and Tim Merry on large-scale systems change and equity. Together, Tim and Tuesday are THE OUTSIDE - systems change and equity facilitators who bring the fresh air necessary to organize movements, organizations, and collaborators forward… read more


E2.07: Isoke Femi: Modes Of Experience, Theoretical Frameworks And Compassion: A Conversation

In episode seven of season two, Tim and Tuesday sit down with colleague Isoke Femi, who brings a beautifully enriching and unique perspective to the work of change. It’s a deeply inspiring transition from one decade to the next — and an invitation to open up to special magic in 2020.

Together, Tim Merry and Tuesday Ryan-Hart are THE OUTSIDE—systems change and equity facilitators who bring the fresh air necessary to organize movements, organizations, and collaborators forward for progress, surfacing new mindsets for greater participation and shared impact.


  • Tues: Today, we have Isoke Femi with us. She brings such a beautiful, deep and different perspective to this kind of work we do.
  • Isoke: I started working at BALLE as a consultant in 2008/09. At the time, BALLE was in a partnership with the Academy for the Love of Learning (seeks to advance learning at all kinds of levels). BALLE was trying to change how people think about economy and how to advance local economy. Each of us brought our own theoretical frameworks into the work and somehow we were able to still create a synergistic process through which transformation could happen. For example, one of the theoretical frames I brought was the idea of the “mother-father peer principal” also known as the bureaucratic, symbiotic, and decentralized modes of experience.
  • Tues: We all brought our own theoretical frames. Why do you think these frames worked / that we were able to move them forward?
  • Isoke: When we do inner work, we get unblocked from our rigid attachment to our belief systems, we get more fluid and are free to be more choiceful in any given moment. We also like each other — there is a lot of admiration and respect for one another. There was a way in which we could hold and support the process and work with each other.
  • Tim: Isoke, I am interested to hear more about the positive ascendancy of the masculine. We’re seeing so much of the masculine that is playing out in such negative ways in our societies, worlds and communities.
  • Isoke: When it comes into balance with the mother. All people carry all three of these. So for me, when the father stands shoulder-to-shoulder with the peer (bring discernment).
  • Tues: You just highlighted something that is important that’s illuminating something that is happening in our movement communities. We are so fragile but some of what we need now is sword. We need to stand up with some dignity - not that, this.
  • Isoke: The sword should cut a path, or create a clearing, but what we do is that we take that sword and use it against each other. This is where the peer comes in. How about we try “x.” The father principal, when it’s in its strength, it can make room for the peer, for mutuality. When all three are working in harmony, you have the collaborative mode.
  • Tues: For many years, you did traditional diversity and equity training. What are you learning about the work of liberation?
  • Isoke: One is metaphysical. One is more physiological. One is more personal. Let me start with the metaphysical — we are already free. We were created free. We get to express. That is a very difficult thing for the oppressed and repressed mind to wrap itself around. We are eternal creators. I have been on a kick lately, for the last month, to have everyone watch a video called “How Diablo Became Spirit (13:17).” She helps a leopard to reconnect with the man who brought him to this reserve. It’s a call to all of us that this is where we are headed — honour the being of every single created thing.
  • Isoke: Watch the documentary “The Power of the Heart.” It is about the power of forgiveness.

Poem: The Guesthouse by Rumi

This being human is a guest-house

Every morning a new arrival

A joy, a depression, a meanness,

Some momentary awareness comes

As an unexpected visitor

Welcome and entertain them all

Even if they are a crowd of sorrows

Who violently sweep your house

Empty of its furniture

Still treat each guest honourably

He may be clearing you out for some new delight

The dark thought, the shame the malice

Meet them at the door laughing

And invite them in

Be grateful for whoever comes

Because each as been sent

As a guide from beyond

— Rumi (Say I am You)

Song: A song for the suffering soul… sung by Isoke Femi

Be still and know

Be still and know

Be still and know, you are one.

Be still and know

Be still and know

Be still and know, you are one.

Subscribe to the podcast now—in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher or anywhere else you find podcasts. New episodes will be available every second Tuesday. If you’d like to get in touch with us about something you heard on the show, reach us at

Find the song we played in today’s show—and every song we’ve played in previous shows—on the playlist. Just search ‘Find the Outside’ on Spotify.

Duration: 43:51

Produced by: Mark Coffin @ Sound Good Studios

Theme music: Gary Blakemore

Episode cover image: source

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