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Dynamic Duel: DC vs Marvel

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Starfire vs Sunspot Episode Transcript

Transcription of our Starfire vs Sunspot episode

Listen to the Starfire vs Sunspot episode here!

[Music] hi and welcome to the dynamic duel podcast a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat based battle simulations I’m marvelous Joe and I’m his twin brother Johnny DC and in this episode we are going to find out exactly who would win in a fight between the Teen Titans character Starfire and the New Mutants slash Avengers character sunspot Avengers character I didn’t know that yeah he later joined the Avengers my daughter faith has been looking forward to this episode for like over a year now she always asked me when we’re gonna do the Starfire episode Oh a Starfire her favorite character yeah yeah she’ll be making a cameo appearance later on okay just like grace did in our electro versus katana right right okay those girls have got to start liking marble no not gonna happen they’re too indoctrinated before we get into our main event where we run our simulations and find out who would win we’re gonna go over the comic book movie news over the past week which includes the reception that the Joker film got at the Venice Film Festival which was pretty spectacular and there’s the final trailer as well right we’ll also be talking about how Disney has recut the New Mutants film to sever all ties to the greater Fox x-men universe and finally you also be discussing the new Titans season to full trailer as always you can skip ahead to whatever segment you want to listen to by checking out our show notes where we list the chapter x yeah this is an old episode here just playing catch-up definitely skip over the new section because it’s all old news ya get to the good stuff but I would include in the good stuff our sincere heartfelt thank yous to the people who rated us over this past week and reviewed us which includes Matt SSE’s wife which I highly suspect is actually just my SS fjc 509 and Laura C one two three four thank you guys for getting us closer to 200 ratings on Apple podcasts right now we’re at 144 ratings so close and once we get to 200 we meet the criteria given by Ron tomatoes to become eligible to become critics on that platform and have our reviews of the Marvel and DC films count toward those films official tomato meter and they just let like 600 new critics join their site yeah I hope we didn’t miss our boat I know seriously come on guys let’s go ahead and get those ratings in if you don’t have an apple podcast account and you can’t rate us on iTunes go ahead and please share us with a friend or family member or on social media that way you spread word about the show and you know we could potentially get in more ratings that way yeah it means so much to us yeah it’s a huge goal of ours so thank you again to everyone who rated and with that out of the way quick to the no prize so no prize is an award that Marvel used to give out up until the 90s to fans our version of the dynamic duel no prize is a digital award that we posted on social media that I personally draw for those who we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week last week’s question was whose side do you take in the Sony Disney spider-man breakup and why we got a lot of answers here really there was no wrong answer they’re all passionate I love that I love that people are so passionate about these characters because I’m definitely passionate about this topic even as a DC fan yeah and quite a few people were able to see both sides of the matter and didn’t take any side I don’t do that yeah you have to choose a side what the hell but let’s run down the list of honorable mentions thank you to Jeremy or who said that he sides with Sony because Disney got greedy and it’s a bigger loss for Sony not to have spider-man J scrump also takes Sony’s side saying that they let Disney use the character that they have the rights to and that Disney is stinking rich already Aaron Alexander Jones sides with Sony saying that no matter what Disney has done for that company that won’t change Sony’s business sense right right so who gives away 50% of their biggest moneymaker fools Sony 8 no fools that’s true it’s like do you like money Justin welcome also sides with Sony saying that they’ve made plenty of good movies and they have the rights fair and square and don’t have to take Disney strong-arming write Sony’s Amade spider-verse they made you know spider-man 2 Edmund 1 that’s pretty much it but is it enough no question this is a horrible track record on chess also sites with Sony saying that he’d rather have more spider-verse movies than MCU Spidey movies think about that spider-verse was a fantastic film yeah won an Oscar that’s that’s a tough call though really think I gravitate more towards the live-action stuff than I do the animated stuff and you’ll still get the live-action stuff Tom Hollands spider-man just will interact with any of the other Marvel characters now true-true Salvador Martinez also sites with sunny saying that this split up could lead to an r-rated carnage film with Spidey in it yeah where he teams up with venom I doubt Sony would go that route but you never know you never know you know given the success of films like Deadpool and possibly the Joker which is coming out next month studios may be more keen on creating r-rated superhero content even with a family-friendly character such as spider-man who knows Joker may start a paradigm shift Jonathan Hazleton also sites with Sony saying that what’s pocket change for Disney is a massive hit for Sony true true kay Morgan also sides with Sony saying Disney is the devil a lot of Sony answers yes let’s move on to the Disney ones Birdman Taylor red sites with Disney because he’s saying Spidey belongs at home with the rest of the Marvel Universe damn straight preach it Red Hood of Twitter sites with Disney because spider-man needs to be in Secret Wars and Sony now can’t do a team-up film of endgame caliber right if you can’t do team of films at all really unless they do like a villain team-up movie like sinister six but it does raise an interesting point our team-up films inherently more appealing than solo movies I think the box office proves that they are yeah yeah which is interesting it’s an interesting point Irani gummi from Instagram definitely follow his profile on Instagram it’s fantastic it’s just imaginary spelled backwards he sides with Disney because he says Marvel has a proven track record with their characters more so than Sony who’s about 50/50 with their spider-man films Jeremy Hoyt is cited with Disney’s saying that they make better spider-man movies which i think is pretty much the ultimate argument there for distance right Disney has yet to make a bad Marvel movie Harrison Fox sided with Disney saying that Disney deserves a higher percentage of the profits for their work they do right they carry a bulk of the creative workload for these Sony films considering that the last movie made over a billion dollars they’re looking for for their fair cut and I agree that they do deserve more probably not 50% but they definitely deserve more than 5% definitely Josie grave sites with neither of the companies because both have legitimate gripes that’s very Switzerland of you same with Adam Spees who also said that he cited with neither because both are conglomerates with too much control and he’s on the consumer side because ultimately in this breakup the consumer is the ultimate loser right it’s like a child trying to side with one of his parents who are getting a divorce it’s not your fault it’s not your I think ultimately though if you’re on the consumer side aka the fan side I think that would lead me to side with Disney given the fact that they make the films that the fans are happy with I’m more inclined to signed with Disney personally Dizzy’s the devil bet that’s at the site of the fans that’s the sign of like business that’s like the logical business side yeah yeah I don’t care about the logical business side I care about my side the fan side Caleb Alvers also cited with neither companies saying that doesn’t matter who’s at fault it just needs to be fixed hell yeah it does I agree with that just fix it I don’t care just fix it and our last honorable mention goes to Gavin oh my who cited with both saying that he saw where both sides were coming from so yeah we got a lot of great perspectives there but only one of the answers provided a plausible solution for all of this drama and that person wins the know price so congrats to Matthew Rivera who actually sites with Sony but said that Disney should offer their full library of Marvel characters video game rights for a 50% stake in the spider-man movies so so Sony would give Disney that 50% stake of the spider-man films that they’re looking for but in return Disney would offer every Marvel character to Sony for video games now Sony just purchased the studio that made the ps4 spider-man video game and that was amazing yeah one game of the year right so we absolutely know that Sony is hit or miss when it comes to their films but our freaking gangbusters when it comes to their video games there’s a whole lot of potential for profit there oh yeah almost as much as a movie right I absolutely think that this is the way they could do it freaking fly Matthew Rivera over to the negotiation table have him lay down this proposal and freakin get shit done right it’s freakin genius let’s do it I want this done by next week and give Matthew Rivera a raise because that was just brilliant yeah and well we don’t have money to offer you but we do have a dinky little JPEG that Jonathan draws that we’ll post on social media so congrats for you know getting that for your brilliant marketing mind it’s gonna have star flyer on it there you go if you the listener want to Wayne Euro no prize go ahead and stay tuned to later on this episode when we ask another question of the week and now that that’s done onto the news [Music] okay to start things off the Joker film had its debut at the Venice Film Festival just a few days ago and it apparently got an eight minute standing ovation which is pretty good it’s the same direction that a star is born received last year people keep saying that Warner Brothers is sort of taking the same Oscar approach with this film that they took with that film Bradley Cooper is a producer on the Joker oh really yeah what yeah I didn’t know that yeah you mean Todd Phillips are like Bros now after the hangover films okay interesting so everyone’s talking about the Oscars everyone’s saying that the Oscar for Best Actor is basically already Joaquin Phoenix is he’s not gonna beat out Robert Downey jr. this is our DJ’s year dude Robert Downey jr. didn’t do anything special he came already done the ranch eyes Han year over ten years he did a lot of heavy lifting for the bass playing himself he’s just playing his douchebag self did you just call Robert Downey jr. a douchebag cuz you have so many people listening to this right now that are frothing at the mouth that really want to fucking stab you right now I’m saying it’s not worthy of an Oscar you’re just fuckin wrong how dare you you did so much he probably had more influence on money being exchanged at the cinema than potentially any other actor in the history of film well it’s fine let him keep the money but the gold is going to Joaquin Phoenix whatever just because you said that it’s not gonna happen now no I hope I don’t jinx it I hope everyone talking about this is not jinxing this because it does look like a fantastic performance well the film has based on I don’t know like around 30 reviews which is not bad and you know it’s not in the 90s the film looks like it’s going to be quite divisive yeah the critics embargo was released on Saturday uh-huh so there’s quite a few reviews already and it’s absolutely divisive the people that don’t like the film like really don’t like the film I don’t think they like the idea of the film they still admit or most of them admit that what Keene Phoenix’s performance is is something special though yeah sure I mean not oscar-worthy there’s a few detractors there’s a few but not many IGN gave it a 10 out of 10 which is surprising because they hardly ever give a film a 10 out of 10 rating Joe Blow gave it a 9 out of 10 my type level for this film that is so high and is your expectation I know I know I’m six and shit at the door and terrified to go into every movie with no expectations because if you go in thinking that this is gonna be the best movie you’ve ever seen you’re gonna be disappointed well guess what they should have debuted at the Venice Film Festival then to rave reviews you’re gonna you’re gonna come out of the movie being like that was just okay it wasn’t what I expected I know I know exactly we’re like three stars expectations really are everything I definitely want to see it with a huge group of people and just kind of feed off of their energy if you always think that’s the best way to to experience these films is it just with the biggest crowd you possibly can I heard the film was pretty funny actually really but like in ways that make you ashamed to laugh like it’s not funny haha it’s more like haha no like that which is surprising because I haven’t really gotten like a funny vibe from the trailer no not really of course the Joker’s final trailer was released just a few days before its debut at the Venice Film Festival mm-hmm and after watching this final trailer I agree with my earlier statement where I said that we really don’t need another one yeah I still think that the first teaser trailer for this film was all that we really needed to be sold on the film this one didn’t really do anything for me I’m sorry what I mean it revealed maybe some interesting moments that I would have prefered just to have been surprised by when I saw it in the theater they have to sell their film you know maybe they shouldn’t have done such a good job on the first trailer then I know I know the music just everything about it was fantastic yeah and this one was really good as well like this one still definitely made me feel like the same feels that I had from the first trailer just it looks like they’re really trying to sell the whole like sympathetic angle for the Joker for Arthur Fleck for sure this the starting scene of this trailer is on the bus where Arthur Fleck is trying to make this kid laugh by making funny faces and the mom it’s mad at him for that and his reaction just kind of broke my heart Arthur flex seems like such a sympathetic character which is a kind of a dangerous thing when it comes to a character like the Joker you don’t want to make him too sympathetic what I’m hoping that they do during the course of this film is present him as hugely sympathetic but by the end make him so unrelatable have him crossed the line so far that we are no longer able to sympathize with him and view him as the villain that he is supposed to be yeah I agree I think that’s a great approach to take with this film if you can make the audience member I’d like just horribly confused by the end as to what they’re feeling and why they feel that way then it means it’s a really impactful film do you think it’s dangerous for people to relate to the Joker absolutely and you know what there’s gonna be some people who walk out of the film still sympathetic of him even after all the evil shit he probably does at the end and yeah that is dangerous and that is part of the discourse that’s going on amongst the critics and on the Twitterverse right now right it does seem like it’s a timely sort of discussion in that we’re kind of getting insight into a deranged mind who’s doing atrocities that were kind of becoming more accustomed to in society currently and not just a deranged mind but one that is basically at the bottom rung of society yeah you know one who he mentions in the film that he wasn’t even sure he existed like he’s constantly abused he’s constantly ignored and there’s only so much someone with a mental illness can take with that kind of attitude from society right and I’m sure we’ll be continuing this discussion when we actually review the film itself I’m not sure the film will offer any solutions as to what to do but just something to think about yeah absolutely I mean again from the opening scene of this trailer it is very heartbreaking like you mentioned it’s just like no good deed goes unpunished yeah that being said though this is Gotham City it’s kind of a shithole City and the mom definitely has a right to protect her child from any sort of you know creepiness out there yeah just like this strange guy like interacting with her child yeah I mean I have children I wouldn’t really appreciate that either but he’s are just making the kid laugh I think if I were them I would have bit my tongue until something I felt crossed the line well the difference here is that yes she confronted him sort of in a rude and aggressive way yeah like if it were me I’d be like oh here kid come sit on my lap and I’ll entertain you for a bit you know okay yeah yeah but it’s just like those kind of interactions that it seems like he constantly encounters yes throughout his day-to-day life and they’re small but those micro interactions add up for sure for sure and shit just keeps happening to this guy and we learned that his social worker is no longer gonna be able to keep seeing him yeah and the line he has right after that about how she doesn’t listen how she just asks the same questions week after week and how are his thoughts his response of him only having negative thoughts should be like a huge red flag right of course no one’s gonna care about because no one cares about him sad but right after that we get a good take of his Joker laughs which I guess in this film Arthur Fleck has a mental condition where he laughs uncontrollably even during inappropriate moments yeah that’s a plot detail that some of the reviews were talking about which is an interesting take yeah we finally get to hear from Robert De Niro’s character yeah he’s a late-night talk-show host and he ridicules Arthur Fleck who’s giving what looks to be his first stand-up performance well later on in the trailer you see that it’s not even really stand-up performance to a crowd it was just to one girl that room is empty what yeah no it’s totally like he was just being filmed because you know sometimes comedy houses will film the performances for the comedian uh-huh and I guess that just leaked and now he’s the butt of the joke of society now thanks to Robert De Niro’s oh that’s sad that’s heartbreak yeah and the crazy thing is I actually thought that joke was funny no was it it was horrible oh no no one’s laughing at him now I thought there was a good joke yeah I mean it’s self-deprecating but I don’t know I think is just his delivery the way he delivered the joke it’s awkward it kind of makes me concerned that this really isn’t the Joker from the comics I mean obviously it’s not the drug from the comics this is essentially in Elseworlds take on the character but he doesn’t seem nearly as intelligent as I think the Joker should be yeah and we don’t know how intelligent he’s gonna be in this film he may actually be intelligent yeah just that no one else sees that and maybe part of the problem right right he does seem to like start some kind of social revolution involving clown masks it’s almost like a V for Vendetta mask yeah and just to see him like walk through the crowd and and see you know people wearing clown masks driving by in taxis and just his reaction to that his pride right you could tell it definitely like boosts his ego yeah despite the fact that it seems like all these clowns are just causing chaos it almost seems like he appreciates the recognition more than the consequences of their actions and it sort of seems like society is what kind of encourages him over the edge yeah that’s a good point that’s interesting they pressure him to go in the wrong direction but they support him in also the wrong direction it’s just weird thing that seems totally relevant to our current times right this is gonna be a fantastic film I heard you know oh my gosh it’ll be fine before the trailer ends you know the Joker character asks Robert De Niro’s character to call him Joker I’m assuming that comes from earlier on when Thomas Wayne asks Arthur Fleck if this is all a joke to him possibly or maybe that’s what Robert De Niro refer to him as in his previous skit like look at this joker or something like that and so he wanted to play off that oh yeah I could totally see that happening to him either way it’ll be an interesting origin of the name ultimately I don’t know if this trailer was was necessary especially coming off of like the hype from the Venice Film Festival huh but you know I appreciate it it wasn’t the trailer we needed but it’s the one we deserved I definitely think we deserve what Keane phoenixes performance as the Joker it looks like it’s gonna be fantastic that brings us to our question of the week who’s your favorite live-action Joker actor and why post your answer to our Instagram Twitter Facebook or email us at dynamic duel podcast at we’ll pick our favorite answer and dry that person at dynamic duel no prize that we’ll post to social media in other things we received word from fandom that Disney has recut the New Mutants film that’s going to be released next April to remove all references to the larger Fox expand universe and that’s coming off of the news that Disney was initially unimpressed with the cut that they received from Fox of this movie sources are saying now that in recent test screenings the film has tested better and that this cut is more aligned with director josh moon’s original vision of the film as this horror esque movie which I’m all for yeah we know that Bob Iger has recently been very very disappointed with how the Fox films have been performing yeah including Dark Phoenix which lost like upward of like a hundred to two hundred million dollars yeah like he was trying to explain to investors like when we initially bought Fox we didn’t think that all of the films that they had in production were gonna be box-office bombs hey you know and this seems like Disney’s concerned that this might be another one well it is low-budget so I’m not sure that they have a whole lot to lose I personally am still really interested in seeing this film because I’m a big fan of the New Mutants they were like the second generation x-men nothing more like the third generation x-men that really introduced some amazing characters one of them being sunspot he was gonna be in this movie magic Colossus his sister Wolfsbane is amazing and so is cannonball I love all those characters Mirage there’s Richter he was in the Logan movie there’s Legion you know and he has a great FX show right now a lot of great characters here that they haven’t really explored too much in any film I think sunspot actually has probably had the most live-action appearances given that he was in x-men Days of Future past he’s in this new mutants film and he was one of the stars of the gifted television show of course he went by a different name Eclipse in that show and I’m not really surprised about what Disney is doing you know sort of cutting off ties to the x-men franchise I remember for a while that they were rumoured to want to introduce Laura Kenny’s character of x-23 into this film right just to tie it into the past x-men franchise but now it seems like they’re not gonna do that yeah as well as mr. sinister he was opposed to make a cameo in this movie played by Jon Hamm and I guess they’re scrapping that in favor of using him perhaps later elsewhere you know MCU x-men franchise allegedly also the characters are mutants in this movie but they’re not necessarily aware of the larger mutant universe out there yeah they don’t know that they are mutants yeah that’s what the article seems to suggest but they should still have their powers in the film they should still you know go by the same names and the movie should still be largely a horror piece and given the fact that most people seem to be over the Fox x-men universe as proved by Dark Phoenix’s box office take I’m kind of fine with this news this new mutants film will be kind of like an outlier that’s not really tied to any particular franchise and I imagine Disney is going to spend like zero dollars marketing it yeah most likely but I’ll see it I’ll see it I hope it’s good I really hope it’s good I’ve been waiting for like a legit superhero horror film for a while now and I’m a big fan of the cast - so yeah me too in my opinion this was perfectly cast right who knows maybe this will be like Suicide Squad maybe people will just love this film and it’ll make a whole bunch of money I mean critics will hate it but people might like it yeah and maybe they’ll do a soft reboot but with the same cast by James Gunn yeah there you go the same franchise saved hopefully moving on to our last bit of news we’ve got a full trailer for Titan season 2 and it’s pretty dense like there’s a lot going on here it’s sitting up a lot of storylines yeah it’s my favorite trailer though I think it amps me up to actually watch the show even though I never will I could barely watch Marvel television shows as it is with everything they got going on oh dude same with me like I still haven’t finished Swamp Thing what I know I promised that like I would give my reaction on the full season that still hasn’t happened is it just not that interesting or what it’s just finding the motivation to get around to it knowing people’s general reaction to the season as a whole wasn’t that great really yeah that’s too bad because it does end on a cliffhanger I’m told no right exactly okay they didn’t even try at the end to kind of wrap that up damn it I did watch all of Titans and and I enjoyed it for the most part this trailer definitely makes me think I’m going to enjoy even more there’s a huge cast of characters here I’m kind of surprised at the huge in Samba that they have you know I was I was kind of hoping to keep it small so I could get to know like characters like Beast Boy and Starfire better but it looks like they’re just going all out with all of these characters yeah Donna Troy’s in there aqualad’s in there Deathstroke’s in there Deathstroke’s daughter whose name I don’t know is in there both of his children are in there Oh what yeah Jericho and ravager although it looks like Jericho is like pretty young the premise appears to be that Dick Grayson is starting sort of like a training ground for new and upcoming superheroes but the Titans of yesteryear which we will see in flashbacks apparently kind of don’t like that idea because they’ve got their asses kicked by Deathstroke exactly exactly it seems like not too many people are happy with dick Grayson’s decision to do this like even the people he’s training like Jason Todd gosh I hate Jason Todd I don’t hate the actor I guess you’re not supposed to like the character of Jason Todd so maybe it all works out but we get to see some of the characters in their costumes Raven actually looks like Raven now you get to see more of Hawk and Dove in costume we see Wonder Girl and custom we get to see tempest Aqualad in costume as well and Superboy and Krypto that’s gonna be cool I’m really looking forward to that I think I’ve mentioned that before but ultimately I think the big reveal is Deathstroke you know we’ve seen him in the last trailer but here we also see him in action yeah looks badass he does look badass acai Morales is gonna kill it as Deathstroke I think can you remind me does this show take place in the air overs no it doesn’t okay if you did then Deathstroke would be played by a noob Annette who was also great in the role is that why speedy isn’t on the team or Arsenal whatever they want to call him because he was a member of the Teen Titans but of course he was also a big part of the arrow television show yeah I wouldn’t be surprised they’re trying not to recycle characters except for Deathstroke the trailer ends with Dov calling odd Dick Grayson to take up the mantle of Batman which is interesting because it makes me wonder like is Bruce Wayne not being Batman well he does look a little bit old in this trailer but I think ultimately dick is going to determine that he can’t take up the role of BAM and due to ideological differences maybe or he just doesn’t want to be Bruce Wayne he wants to be his own thing right I mean he burned his Robin suit in season 1 and we see that at the beginning of this trailer so I think this season is going to be him becoming Nightwing hopefully happens sooner rather than later but I get the feeling like he’ll probably show up in costume in the final episode hopefully feel like Nightwing has one of the best costumes in DC Comics and this show definitely has great costume designs so I’m really looking forward to seeing what that Nightwing costume looks like yeah same here the one last thing in this trailer that I want to touch on is that it looks like Starfire is gonna delve more into her tamaranian past we see another Tam Iranian I don’t know if it’s her brother or who like kidnap her yeah so we’ll see what happens there but speaking of Starfire let’s go ahead and get into the main event of this episode where we find out who would win in a fight between Starfire and sunspot I’ll go get my daughter Fame [Music] okay before we get started we have a special guest for this episode if you listened all the way back in Erica Tana versus Electra duel yo remember that my daughter Grace did a brief cameo in that episode because katana was her favorite superhero well Starfire happens to be the favorite hero of my other daughter faith who’s four years old and why don’t you say hi she has a bit of a cold so we’ll see how far we make it through this but faith who do you like between Marvel and DC why because that’s what my dad tells me to like pretty much huh what do you think of Marvel oh that’s messed up that’s what I think too what do you like Starfire oh yeah faith has curly hair she likes characters a lot of hair who do you hope wins this match between sunspot and Starfire that’s right say sunspot is going down do you like Disney Princesses nope oh she knows this trick yes she knows I trained her how do you know the character of Starfire oh the cartoon yeah who else is on the cartoon cyborg who’s your favorite Marvel character that’s enough of this that’s enough yeah Thank You say say go Starfire all right good job that’ll be cute to listen to down the road when she’s older she’ll be like what was i doing why did i talk like a baby okay so Starfire vs. sunspot now we’re doing this particular duel because it ties into the x-men days of future past movie that we reviewed last week sunspot was in that film although he was wildly misrepresented as we spoke about in that review but this also leads up to our the Teen Titans against the x-men right and Starfire will be on my roster yeah we’re gonna have a lot of episodes that deal with with the x-men and the Teen Titans in the upcoming weeks this being one of them now we decided to pit Starfire versus sunspot because we think that they have a comparable power set and they both started out as members of like fledgling teams that were kind of growing up as superheroes but right right so they have a lot in common I think I actually don’t know too much about sunspot I actually don’t know too much about Starfire so hopefully they have a lot in common if you ever listen to one of our duel episodes before the way we do this is stats it’s all stat based right we take the characters base stats among a variety of criteria mainly set forth by the Marvel official Power Rankings grid as well as a few additional stats that we incorporate that we think are important and we take those numbers and we randomize them among a normal distribution which is a probabilistic model known as the Monte Carlo simulation yeah we run the simulation a thousand times which gives us a percentage of wins for each character now no character ever wins for a character to defeat another right so even though we declare the winner to be you know one character in the match it’s not to discount the fact that the other character also wins a percentage of matches as well we’re just saying that the character with the highest probability of winning is the overall winner of course we take this approach because it’s scientific and it’s mathematical and Joseph and I you know being DC and Marvel fans ever since we were little are both heavily biased towards our respective comic company yeah we figured this is the fairest way to come to the answer of who would win it’s the same approach that Spike TV took with their television show Deadliest Warrior that was on the air like over a decade ago now so yeah there’s no bias no fan votes you know no uncharacteristic feats of strength we go with you know their standard stats that we feel truly represent the character best and the Monte Carlo method accounts for all the different variables that they’ll encounter in the battle before we run these 1,000 simulations we’d like to give a breakdown of each character’s history and abilities I think it’s your turn to go first this episode so let’s learn all about Starfire alright so princess corriander was the second of three children born to king my ender and Queen Lou Amdur of the planet tamarin the eighth planet in the biggest star system tammer Amiens sustain themselves by absorbing ultraviolet radiation and their royal family is able to harness that energy into flight now coriander’s older sister commander was the next in line for the throne but she contracted an illness as a child that robbed her of her ability to fly making corriander the royal successor when the siblings were of age they were sent to trained under the warlords of okara the fiercest warrior race of the Vega system commander embittered at having lost her right to the throne almost killed her sister corriander in a sparring exercise which resulted in commander being expelled from the training program commander fled betraying her family and the people of tamarin by giving away its defense secrets to their fiercest enemies an alien race known as the Citadel why are all these aliens named after like spices you have like Planet tamarind and coriander like hook’em her sister is a name cilantro have an idea it’s all different spellings alien spellings yeah tamarind was conquered easily by the Citadel and in the terms of tamarind surrender King meander was forced to offer his daughter coriander to the Citadel as a slave hmm to her horror coriander was given to commander as a reward and her sister kept coriander drugged for years as she was forced to endure slave labor and multiple forms of abuse by commander’s forces having reached a breaking point coriander killed one of her abusers and as her sister commander was about to execute her for her crime both were kidnapped by an alien race of sadistic scientists known as the Saiyans the science performed torturous experiments on the sisters wanting to gauge and increase the amount of energy their Tamburini and physiology could absorb but their experimentation backfired granting coriander the ability to channel her absorbed energy into destructive blasts known as star bolts coriander broke free from her restraints and tried to free her sister as well who she found being overloaded with energy commander struck down coriander with an even more powerful star bolt just as her forces arrived to save their commander coriander managed to steal a spacecraft Chris and Starfire and fled to a nearby planet of Earth where she met and gained the help of the newly reformed Teen Titans team since Tambourine Ian’s were able to absorb language to be a physical contact coriander was able to learn English by kissing the Teen Titans leader Dick Grayson who was Robin at the time she kissed dick oh my gosh technically yes I mean I can’t say no to that um of course you could learn more about Dick Grayson in our night web versus daredevil episode I apologize for being 9 years old everybody that’s fine grandeur stayed on earth to join the Teen Titans adopting the name Starfire and the alias coriander’s sure does a model meanwhile back on Tamron the war-torn planet was left in chaos with different factions vying for power and control Starfire was forced to return to her planet and marry a prince of the southern states named cross in order to unify her people and seal a peace treaty cross later died in battle as did Cory’s second husband general Fijian Starfire almost married Dick Grayson with whom she had developed a romantic relationship during her time on earth but their wedding was interrupted by Raven who was evil and corrupt at the time you can learn more about Raven in our Raven vs Phoenix episode their engagement and marriage was called off however and Cory returned to tamarin for a time which was now ruled by her sister commander now known as black fire black fire actually ruled the planet justly and honorably up until the planets implosion as a result of war with the Saiyans Starfire helps the surviving tamaranian settle on a nearby moon during the Infinite Crisis storyline Starfire joined her former Titans teammate Donna Troy and other cosmic DC heroes in their investigation of a massive hole that had been torn in the newly-formed center of the universe Starfire helped repair the hole but like many heroes went missing by the end of the crisis in reality she ended up trapped on an alien planet with the heroes animal man and Adam Strange they eventually escaped the planet with the help of Lobo and returned to Earth at which time Starfire lost her powers only to have them restored later with the help of Adam Strange on the planet ran you can learn more about Adam Strange in our Adam Strange vs star-lord episode Starfire return to Earth and teamed up with her former Teen Titans teammates to help stop the demonic sons of Trigon the father of Raven after the blackest night storyline Starfire joined the Justice League for a time before joining a cosmic team known as the rebels and discovering that the planet ran was teleported to the original orbit of the planet tamarin to prevent a war the surviving tamarine ian’s were allowed to settle on rands uninhibited southern continent aren’t the thanagarian settled on rann - yes actually so you have the tamarins the thanagarians and the rands all living on planet ran the radians and whatever yeah yeah interesting in the new 52 star fires origin was changed slightly so that her parents who were killed by the citadel when she and her sisters were young and her sister commander was forced into a position of power and to imprison her sister in a Citadel prison where Starfire was experimented on when Starfire developed her star bolts ability she led a rebellion that saved thousands of slaves she lost her memory when she arrived on earth but fought alongside to the heroes Red Hood and Arsenal who helped her save her planet tamron from a new alien race known as the blights who had corrupted her sister once again known as black fire Starfire returned to Earth and later joined a new version of the Teen Titans and the cosmic Justice League known as Justice League Odyssey powers wise star fires Tamburini and physiology allows her to constantly absorb ultraviolet radiation negating the necessity to eat drink sleep or even breathe atmosphere the stored energy grants her enhanced durability and strength and she could channel the energy to fly or fire powerful energy beams known as star bolts in addition her combat training at the hands of the warlords of okara has proven on multiple instances to have made her a more formidable fighter than even the Amazons and that star fire there’s so much within her story that reminds me of sunspot not just her powers but also her backstory that’s almost kind of eerie how often that plays out betrays choices that we made how coincidental it all turns out yeah yeah it’s almost like we could read each other’s minds or something or the comic writers are borrowing from each other heavily yeah yeah yeah no we’re telepaths okay so sunspots real name is Roberto de Costa and he was born in Sao Paulo Brazil to an American archaeologist named Nina and a millionaire businessman named Manuel da Costa his father pushed him to be the best at whatever he did but was domineering and shrewd causing a rift in the family that led his mother to get a divorce Roberto turned to athletics to cope becoming a star player in his high school soccer team at 14 years old he played in a big championship match in Rio de Janeiro the opposing team consisted of lighter-skinned players who begin playing dirty and knocked Roberto to the ground in their racist hatred prejudice of course being a theme throughout the x-men comics it was something Roberto experienced before he ever became a mutant as a hot-tempered teen Roberto fought back and the other team retaliated by beating him up on the soccer field his mutant powers activated for the first time that day his skin turned dark absorbing the ambient light inside him awakening his superhuman strength and he threw the opposing player across the field the other players and most of the fans in the stadium fled in shock though his girlfriend Giuliana Santo ball stayed by him word of the incident reached the Hellfire Club a group of social elites who sought to increase their influence over the world by increasing their own power and eliminating others with power including mutants they deemed a threat to their plans Donald Pierce a member of the Reavers and the white Bishop of the Hellfire clubs inner circle hired mercenaries to abduct Roberto but they failed and capture girlfriend Juliana instead luckily Professor Charles Xavier leader of the x-men was also aware of the soccer incident and had sent several members of the New Mutants to help as they tried to rescue Juliana one of the mercenaries fired at Roberto and she died jumping in front of the bullet to protect him devastated Roberto and the New Mutants went on to defeat Pierce and he decided to move to the United States as Professor X’s newest student he became a mainstay of the New Mutants team alongside other mutants such as Mirage cannonball Wolfsbane and magic meanwhile Roberto’s father joined the Hellfire Club as the new white rook after accidentally giving his teammate cannonball a concussion during a friendly soccer match Roberto deemed his powers were too dangerous for the team and he ran away he joined the Fallen Angels a group of adolescent Mutant thieves but after a series of adventures that led them to places such as Dinosaur World and a nightclub planet called Coconut Grove Roberto learned the lesson of sticking by your friends during tragedy and he rejoined the New Mutants who were at the time led by Magneto while Professor X was taken off world by the Shiar aliens to be treated for an attack by Hydra you can learn more about this in our Sinestro versus magneto duel episode a magneto turned into a domineering team leader and Roberto rebelled against him alongside many of the other new mutants he left the team again after learning his father had died and he had now inherited his business and millions of dollars it turned out his father was killed however by an immortal mutant known as an external named Gideon getting captured and experimented on Roberto believing him to be an external himself the experiments amplified his solar absorption powers by rescued by his old teammates who are now called x-force and being led by the time-traveling mutant cable whom you can learn more about in our Booster Gold vs. cable episode Roberto’s powers had evolved and he can now expel the stored solar energy from his body in the form of heat blasts and as a means of propulsion for flight oh wow after joining x-force he discovered he can no longer return to the United States since his student visa expired so he had to leave the team he lived as a bored rich playboy in Rio de Janeiro until he was approached by Selene the black queen of the Hellfire Club who invited him to join their inner circle Roberto declined but she offered to resurrect his old girlfriend juliana who has sacrificed herself for him feeling he owed to juliana his life Roberto accepted and became the new black rook oh wow he used his new influence to move his business dealings from Brazil to Los Angeles where he became the head of X corporation an international nonprofit organization created by Professor X to investigate new in rights violations and work with the x-men he was one of the powers after the events of M day when the Scarlet Witch deactivated most of the world’s mutant powers in a fit of madness alongside former teammates Mirage and cannonball he reformed the new mutants team as an instructor however that was short-lived as the events of Avengers vs. x-men led Roberto to join the Avengers as part of the team’s objective to include more mutants and help mutant and human race relations once the incursions of alternate universes began destroying each other leading up to the events of the latest secret war series Roberto decided to use his wealth to buy out the evil organization known as advanced idea mechanics or aim he renamed it Avengers idea mechanics and used their scientific resources to study the incursions and find a way to stop them it led to the development of a machine that could travel between the multiverse and Roberto formed and led the multiversal Avengers though they were ultimately unsuccessful as the multiverse was destroyed saved by Doctor Doom and then reformed by mr. fantastic during the Secret Wars event Roberto next led his company to try and develop a cure for EM pox which is a disease that mutants contract when exposed to the Terrigen mists that had been released into Earth’s atmosphere by Black Bolt which you can learn more about in our Shazam vs. Black Bolt duel episode his company was folded into shield becoming its intelligence division now known as American intelligence mechanics and he renamed himself citizen V after the line of heroes dating back to World War 2 Sun SPOT became citizen V yes weird however since that time shield had been replaced by Hydra and a time altered Captain America and Roberto resigned from his position he has since reunited with the x-men alongside his old new mutants means the powers why is sunspots primary ability is photosynthesis he absorbs and stores solar energy and photons synthesizing it for his powers when he does this his body is cloaked in darkness like a shadow as it drains all the ambient light from his body he can use the solar energy to empower his own physicality negating his need for food and oxygen and granting him enough strength to lift around 50 tons though his durability is not enhanced beyond his capacity to withstand the weight he lifts so similar to Jessica Jones he can withstand some impacts that a normal human couldn’t but he’s not bulletproof although he is fireproof sunspot can also create thermal updrafts that allow him to fly as well as fire blasts of heat and light his energy absorption extends beyond sunlight to include additional wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum including gamma radiation and laser radiation he’s trained in martial arts alongside the x-men and the Avengers being gifted in the Brazilian martial art of capoeira sunspot is also a successful financial and business tactician and that’s him are these like the same character powers why is almost it seems like what kind of energy does he emit solar energy so ultraviolet yes sure are they gonna be able to even hurt each other or of each other’s powers that’s a great question that’s not something that I considered while planning this match yeah me neither we’ll figure it out okay I’ll be fine we always do yeah so now that we’ve gone over the histories and abilities of both of these characters what Jonathan and I like to do is we like to improvise a sort of speculative scenario for one of the 1,000 matches basically how we think it would play out we don’t set any rules for this improvise scenarios say for the fact that the characters don’t know anything about each other other than that the other one is a threat that needs to be put down the fight takes place in an on environment essentially the environment plays no role in the match itself because you know environments can land advantages to certain characters over the others and we don’t take statistics for the environment right so we like to make sure these characters went on their own merits without any outside help so let’s get into it the characters start about 50 yards apart from each other on the battlefield who goes first well how fast is Starfire she could go like orbital speed okay well sunspot usually maxes out around he starts to overexert himself right so given that Starr fires faster she probably goes for I agree I agree so let’s say I’m still wondering if they affect each other though like they could both absorb the energy that they’re emitting right but it’s like Starfire gets hurt by her sister black fires energy blasts all the time radar bolts and there is a concussive force that accompanies sunspots solar blasts and I wouldn’t say the star bolts are just like a laser there’s like a concussive like explosion that happens when they hit things oh really yeah okay okay so yeah they can’t hurt each other I would imagine that some of the impact from the energy blasts are negated just through the nature of their absorption powers but they’ll be able to affect each other in some regard yeah the radiation of the blast could get absorbed but not the the force of it yeah the explosive force so it’s not gonna burn a hole in them it’s gonna push him back right okay so Starfire she Rockets into the air with her cool like fiery hair trail that she leaves huh and just since two star bolts blasting towards Sun SPOT well a Sun SPOT he sees her coming and he activates his sunspot mode you know he absorbs all the light around him and he looks like a shadow and he dodges her star ball attack by him flying straight up into the air and she flies past him and as she does that he fires like this big thermal energy wave blast at her so she gets like knocked down to the ground yeah it kind of like shoves her down into the ground okay well you know she probably hit the ground pretty hard yeah and like she like broke some of the ground so she just picks up like a huge slab of the ground and just hurls it at him and sunspot melts it before it even reaches him jokes on him that was the distraction as he’s busy melting it she’s just like plows right through the rock and him oh so he gets knocked back and now they’re at close quarters combat like air grappling and I’m pretty sure she’s a better fighter than him especially in the air no way no way he has like those Brazilian Jiu Jitsu skills so while they’re grappling he like gets her an aerial armbar and then they both like plummet to the ground no no Starfire has won an Amazonian fighting tournament uh-huh there’s no way he’s a better fighter than her okay so he thinks he has her in an armbar but like she’s an alien she’s like really tall right she was really long so as he has her in that armbar she just lifts her leg and kicks him right in the temple she’s like flexible that way yeah okay all right so he gets kicked in the head he probably lands onto the ground just to kind of like recuperate he might be a little bit concussed and she follows up with a series of like these energy pulses that are just fired at him yeah because wood fire but he’s countering those energy blasts with his own so they’re negating each other in midair like creating like these thermal like detonations midair as the energy collides into each other but then he sends out this huge white blinding strobe that blinds Starfire oh she can’t see so she’s like temporarily stunned and he uses that opportunity to do like a shoryuken like from Street Fighter because like this flank uppercut and he just punches her like right in the jaw sending her flying upward into the air she’s okay she’s definitely disoriented she’s still getting her eyesight back she doesn’t know like where to fire so she just kind of goes like supernova she just fires in all directions and this really powerful blast that just sends sunspot flying you may be pushed back a little bit but he’s also absorbing all the radiation from that Nova blast so she’s powering came up like a lot at which point he retaliates by like sending the hugest like solar energy blasts that you’ve ever seen has this huge diameter it’s gotta be like almost as tall as he is and it just like plows right into Starfire no because she gets her sight back quick enough to see it coming and she counters with her own so she’s fine I got this huge blast too and like their energy is just colliding and probably problems like this small Sun yeah like a small Sun that suddenly just like explodes in a sense both of them flying backward okay they’re probably opposite ends of the arena like recovering from that but again Starfire is faster so she speeds towards him really fast closing the distance uh-huh because she figures that her blasts aren’t as effective as her combat skills and figures that she could take him in a one-on-one combat okay she closes that distance and just starts using her alien fighting technique to beat the crap she’s not that much better than him like he probably does like some sweet-ass capoeira moves to dodge some of her attacks like he does like this flip jump spin in the air that finishes with a side kick to her face she’s trained with Nightwing huh who knows all of the fighting styles she knows earth fighting styles he doesn’t know her fighting style okay that gives her the advantage so as he’s trying all these fancy dance moves she just kicks him right in the nuts why the nuts because he has them she doesn’t use that to read dancing he is on his knees on the ground like feeling like he’s gonna barf and everything like that but then he like surprise attacks her and like punches are right in the ovaries Ron Burgundy style she’s an alien and she doesn’t have that kind of Anatomy where you think they would be okay all right all right well we’ll end the match there okay I’m not sure what else they could do to each other so either she beats him down physically or he beats her down physically and that isn’t happening and you will run the simulations and come back to you with the actual winner [Music] well that was kind of a bust see this is why we don’t really like to do those like Carbon Copy duel episodes that people have suggested like killer frost versus Iceman or Superman versus IP Rihanna right that’s the big one yeah because when you have characters that are pretty much identical in powerset there’s not really much that they can do to hurt each other yes we know the result is essentially gonna be a 50/50 split like with Green Arrow and Hawkeye we found that it’s much more interesting to get characters that have many similarities but have slightly different power sets yeah now in this case though their stats I wouldn’t say are equal no they’re not equal the powers are equal but the stats are not Starfire is just a little bit more powerful and almost all of the static categories yeah just slightly but Roberto is a less smarter than Starfire I wanna say a lot smarter often Starfire is sort of played as naive due to her alien nature she doesn’t know a lot of things about Earth yeah but even then like black fire her sister sort of like the strategist in their family uh-huh so he is smarter than her they’re both fast she’s a little bit faster they’re both good at fighting she’s a little bit of a better fighter they both have high energy outputs although we gave the edge - Starfire in this and since certifiers feats regarding her energy blasts were a lot more impressive being able to destroy an entire alien spaceship with one blow yeah she could essentially go supernova as sometimes yeah pretty rare but we gave her the edge yeah since my it’s not quite at that level they’re both semi durable although again we would probably give the edge to Starfire in that regard so is it any wonder who’s gonna win this match yeah because intelligence plays a big role right we’ll see how much we’ll see how much all right so so I don’t even have to ask for your guess on who you think won this now I know Starfire won I just want to know by how much you know we’ll see we’ll see mr. cocky pants what’s that’s a horrible name god damn it all right so the winner of the Starfire sunspot matchup is Starfire fire yeah she won sunspot only one 323 so thirty-two point three percent of the time he loses again that’s not to say that he would never win in a fight between the two it’s that the odds highly favored Starfire yeah yeah if you’re a betting person choose Starfire she gets the victory for this episode that’s right that’s right lame I feel like it did a bad job of picking this match up both in that I lost and both and that the speculation it was really hard to do that was hard to do yeah but our next duel episode which will be in two weeks will be flash wally west versus speed ball which will be pretty damn interesting I think because that those are two characters that have wildly different power sets but are similar enough to pit against each other but before that duel episode next week we will be reviewing the direct-to-video animated DC film Justice League the flashpoint paradox yeah I’ve been looking forward to reviewing that one I haven’t seen the film yet I’ve been waiting for our review of it but I hear it’s really good I don’t know anything about it I’ve heard flashpoint paradox a lot and your BIOS for characters but I actually don’t know what it entails so I’m interested in seeing what it’s all about right into us guys and let us know what you thought about this matchup and you can do that via email at dynamic duo podcast at or you can find us on social media on Facebook Instagram and Twitter visit our website dynamic duel comm to get links to all those social media profiles as well as to our merchandise store which is on T public you could find a link to that on our website as well if you use the link from our website you’ll get a discount on your first order and who doesn’t want a star fired t-shirt or mug or a canvas printing to hang on your wall yeah that’s one of the options offered on that store that’s pretty cool yeah you’re looking to spruce up your home with some superhero art visit our online store Ryan you can find a link to that at dynamic duo comm don’t forget to share this episode with people that you think would enjoy it as well as the rest of the episodes that we have and if you have night oons account and you haven’t rated us yet please please please do that yeah we got a lot of ratings last week we got four of them let’s see if we could do better this week that up let’s keep that up yeah yeah that does it for this episode guys we’ll talk to you next week up up and away true believers

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