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Dynamic Duel: DC vs Marvel

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The Flash (Wally West) vs Speedball Episode Transcript

Transcription of our The Flash (Wally West) vs Speedball episode

Listen to the The Flash (Wally West) vs Speedball episode here!

[Music] hi and welcome to the dynamic duel podcast a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat based battle simulations I’m Johnny DC and I’m his twin brother marvelous Joe and you remember at the end of the last episode when we said we would be reviewing flashpoint that’s next episode as it turns out we had to do some schedule rearranging because the Teen Titans go to the movies animated film and the Wonder Woman bloodlines animated film come out back-to-back next month so that pushed more duel episodes to this month and we didn’t want to do three duel episodes in a row so we’re doing this episode now and then we’ll review flashpoint in her next episode this episode of course is the flash wally west vs. speedball it’s actually what I’ve been looking forward to for a while since we came up with the idea oh yeah I love speedball and I grew up like reading Wally West so he’s a near and dear to my heart can’t wait to talk about him yeah I wanted to choose someone to go up against Wally that wasn’t just a repeat of our Barry Allen versus Quicksilver matchup yeah so you know speedball he can go fast but his primary power is to bounce essentially and I think it’ll be pretty interesting yeah before we get into the duel though we’re gonna break down the news items from the past week which includes the Joker winning the Golden Lion award at the Venice Film Festival huge huge the birds of prey teaser was attached to it chapter 2 and Hailee Steinfeld has been offered the Kate Bishop role in the Hawkeye Disney Plus series as always you can skip ahead through the episode if this is old news to you and go ahead and check out our show notes for the chapter x we want to give a quick shout out to the person who gave us our 140 v rating on Apple podcasts yeah we don’t know who the person was because they didn’t leave a review but they did get us one rating closer to our goal of 200 ratings on Apple podcasts and iTunes as you guys know we’re trying to get to 200 because at that point Ron tomatoes says we are eligible to have our reviews count toward the Marvel and DC movies that we review it’s a huge goal of ours to be like run Tomatoes film critic so if you guys can help us out with that that would be amazing a little discouraged that we only got one reading this past week but it’s fine I mean it it bounced back we’ll bounce back like it I think it’s time to reach out to like specific people to rate us who haven’t yet so James it’s your turn it’s your turn to rate us if you haven’t done it yet I think that’s a common names and Mary Mary you gotta you gotta go on iTunes and rate us do your turn we’re just gonna start giving out random names yes until we get to 200 I mean it only takes like two seconds we’re not asking for a review just a rating right and we’ve already talked about this for too long moving on quick to the mill prize a no prize is an award Marvel used to give out up until the 90s to fans our version the dynamic duel no prize is a digital award that we post on social media that Jonathan personally draws for those who we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week last week’s question was who is your favorite live-action Joker actor and why I feel like we got a lot of flack for this question maybe it wasn’t a great question we got more flack for this question than maybe any other question we’ve ever asked right because some people were like well I want to include the animated actors or Dec answer this question because I haven’t seen the new movie really what we’re trying to get from this question was what do people like in their live-action Joker’s so far leading up to the new Joker film yeah there’s really only a handful of choices to choose from but really we were looking for the why like why was this your favorite live-action depiction our first honorable mention goes to hacks who gave the answer of Heath Ledger for his incredible performance though his favorite is actually Kevin Michael Richardson who did the voice work for the Batman cartoon Brooks Lambert also gave the answer of Heath Ledger who called him iconic sinister and comedic Harrison Fox gave the answer of Cesar Romero from the 60s Batman television show saying that he paved the way for on-screen Joker’s that’s true he’s very comics accurate I think for the time although he did paint his mustache white he didn’t want to shave his mustache right I just put white paint over it right funny right Jeremy white gave the answer of Heath Ledger said that he basically gave his life for the role which I don’t know about I guess it was a lot of pressure to be in that role we do know that he basically makes sleeping medication and all oh just something you don’t do right he went to a dark place after the role for sure yeah yeah Adams fees also gave the answer of Heath Ledger saying it was a disturbed humorous and utterly captivating performance that we craved more of and it’s true I was so heartbroken when Heath Ledger died especially when I got to see the film because I would have loved to see more of his Joker Adams brother John Spees from the blast from our past podcast gave the answer of Cesar Romero citing the nostalgia that he has for Romero’s performance in the Batman 60 Show and he thinks that Cesar Romero had the best Joker laugh which isn’t the interesting point The Joker laugh is so iconic you really have to nail that if you’re gonna play the role it’s kind of like the bond James Bond line for those actors absolutely you’ll notice spoiler alert that no one gave the answer of Jared Leto and he definitely had the worst Joker laughs Kieran pumorii gave the answer of Heath Ledger sank he was menacing calculated and chaotic and writing the Heath Ledger train is also Mitch Phipps who said that Ledger had a lot of charisma and his performance really paid attention to detail Jacob Bell gave the answer of Heath Ledger as well saying that his performance was on another level though he respected Jared Leto for not even trying to touch Ledger’s performance and I guess if letter deserves any kind of respect it’s because of that just a very little bit of respect Jeff Wiles jr. gave the answer of Cameron monoghan from the Gotham TV show on Fox saying that it’s the first time we got to see a young Joker and Monica’s performance perfectly explained why the Joker character is so disturbed and he played like several different versions of the Joker I really credit to him for that yeah Jace Crump gave the answer I’ve Heath Ledger saying that he was blown away by his performance Matthew Gonzales also gave the answer of Heath Ledger saying if anyone gives the answer of Jared Leto we have to ban them from listening to the podcast luckily no one did so we don’t have to ban anybody right right and finally Rick Minnick gave the answer of Cesar Romero and his reasoning was just an animated gif of Romero laughing which yeah yeah good point good point but the winner of this week’s no prize goes to Ken Johnson the only person to give the answer of Jack Nicholson now I am biased here because of nostalgia essentially I still remember having the VHS tape of Batman and just watching Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson just ham it up it was so great it still brings a warm feeling to my heart whenever I watch that film his performance owed a lot to Cesar Romero’s though I think he was absolutely inspired by Cesar Romero but I also think he improved upon it and expanded upon it it was just so menacing like I always go back to the boardroom scene you know when he’s like talking to all the mobsters and it just kills that guy like fries I’m like right in front of him he’s just so unpredictable he’s a knee like Romero but he’s a lot more evil right right yeah I can see that and also you’re right he was our first Joker growing up his kids so he’s the most comic accurate in my opinion really oh yeah potentially out of the choices to me the Joker character is flamboyant and funny and colorful and that’s exactly what Jack Nicholson was so kudos to King Johnson yeah you end this week’s no prize if you the listener would like to win a no prize go ahead and stay tuned to later on this episode when we will ask another question of the week now that that’s done onto the news [Music] so on Saturday at the close of the 76 the Venice International Film Festival The Joker movie was awarded the highest honor of the festival the Golden Lion right usually that type of award is seyd for Best Picture contenders such as Roma and the shape of water and other just amazing film so it’s kind of a big deal to win this Golden Lion award it is a big deal I mean not too many American Hollywood films are given this honor very few we do have the shape of water we do have Roma but before that like there were any Hollywood films until like The Wrestler like ten years ago it was given to mainly foreign films is what you’re saying right exactly it’s given to like the most artistic film in the world of that year essentially the Venice Film Festival is all about artistry it’s like one of the two most prestigious film festivals in the world next to the Kahn Film Festival so for a comic book film to win this award is a huge deal it basically guarantees that the Joker is going to get nominated for Best Picture and probably gets a Best Actor nomination at the Oscars but not Best Director probably that too what about Best Screenplay and that name another one but yes you are way over hyped for this oh my god I know I am how could I not be a won a Golden Lion what is so crazy about this wing too is that Warner Brothers didn’t even want to enter the film into competition initially like during his acceptance speech Todd Phillips said thank you so much to Warner Brothers for stepping out of your comfort zone and taking such a bold swing and risk on him in this movie so you know Warner Brothers is just like ecstatic about this yeah it’s great publicity leading up to the film the movies also being premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival which is actually happening tonight yeah yeah so we’ll get even more reactions to that apparently according to The Hollywood Reporter or as a deadline one of the trades were saying that basically everyone at the film festival was just waiting for the Joker this film is gonna like be a masterpiece allegedly allegedly you need to calm down and all I’m saying how just how calm your tits no other coated film has ever had this much hype leading up to it endgame no wait no hype like critical hype critical hypo Ward hype sure I guess you’re taking a take a step back dude all the listeners say it along with me check your expectations Jonathan check your fucking expectation my expectations are that this film was so good it won a Golden Lion that’s what my expectations are does it make sense but okay it’s just gonna be a really good film Joker’s gonna suck all right just because you love it so much it’s gonna fucking suck just wait can’t wait till it sucks well you’re gonna have to wait a long guess time because it’s not gonna happen I hate moving on to the next news okay so if you had the chance to see it chapter 2 this past weekend spoiler alert it’s not as good as the first one it’s still not bad it’s not bad but if you saw the movie in theaters you saw the teaser two birds of prey which comes out next year it was also leaked online yeah yeah see it if you go online it’s only about 30 seconds it’s not very long at all because it wasn’t really a trailer it was kind of a gag which was kind of surprising I really wish I wouldn’t have seen this online before I saw it in the theater because I would have been really surprised when it happened uh-huh basically you think the movie it is starting you see like these red balloons and the music from the film starts playing right and they’re floating over the studio logos then also when you see the DC logo and you’re like what I know I would have been like what if I were to saw that in theaters and then Harley Quinn pops up you think it’s penny wise but she smashes some balloons pops alone with her mallet and she’s like I’m so fucking over clowns and then like winks at the camera and she’s talking about the upcoming DC movie the Joker right she’s talking about Joaquin Phoenix with that line right I don’t know what she’s talking about honestly he’s talking about the Joker how you have no clue what they were trying to do with this marketing push or at least at the very least that line well they’re trying to tie it into the fact that you know Pennywise is a clown and the Joker her Expo is a clown you know but this does seem like the wisest marketing campaign when you’re about to put out a clown film next month that’s true that’s true curly Quinn is such an influential character you don’t want her influencing people to think that clowns are bad or dumb or not worth your time that being said I don’t think anybody will get that from know that’s true that’s sure I’m just reading way too much into it but you’re defensive of the upcoming Joker movie ah exactly exactly right after you know we learn of the gag we see a whole bunch of quick snippets of footage and I gotta say I don’t really find any of it impressive like at all it’s just too fast yeah I mean we get to see a good shot of Huntress and costume Marie elizabeth winstead looks pretty cool as the character wielding her crossbow and everything we also see Black Canary deliver a sidekick to like some like goon henchmen and I gotta say is like a world-class martial artist she doesn’t have the best form right there’s little to no impact with that kick but I think I’m most disappointed by Black Mask considering that Ewan McGregor is not wearing a black mask honestly by this point I’m starting to worry that we’re not gonna see him in the black mask in this film at all you think they would have marketed it by now maybe they’re saving it as a surprise or something I want it now this might be like the black masks origin story where we see him get the mask but that’s a little bit disappointing I guess it is because I don’t need an origin story for Roman sionis I just want to see him in his badass mask honestly we do get to see Renee Montoya clad all in black along with Huntress and Black Canary it’s very like street fashion it’s not very like superhero costume II know huh but that makes sense for these characters I think the movie is pretty stylish if you have to say one good thing about it it looks stylish the cinematography doesn’t look terrible the lighting looks interesting it reminds me a lot of Punisher war zone yeah I could totally see that we see Harley Quinn throwing like her melih at this henchman who’s wearing this looks like a rabbit mask which is interesting and they’re like in some kind of Carnival Fun Zone I’m not sure where they are might be an allusion to Mad Hatter I don’t see why it would be he’s not gonna be in this film that were aware of I just want something like concrete I want to know if this film is gonna be good or bad and so far like it doesn’t raise my expectations in any way the coolest thing I think about this trailer was the logo and the music was pretty cool the music was cool it did fit the tone of the trailer it definitely feels like based on the title card that they’re taking a page from like the Suicide Squad branding book is she eating a sausage McMuffin with egg at the end of this trailer or is it an egg McMuffin with sausage I can’t remember what it’s called is that what she’s eating at the end of this teaser yeah I think so some kind of burger she’s winking so makes me think she’s gonna break the fourth wall a lot in this film like Deadpool yeah this whole thing feels like they’re trying to do Deadpool but like maybe the feminine version of it something that would appeal more to a female audience yeah I mean this sounds kind of cool it’s a good concept I noticed that the two hyenas that Harley Quinn has in the comics are in the back of the car with her at this point I’m just wondering when we’re gonna get the actual trailer for this film because we’ve gotten like a comic-con sneak peek that was very rapid-fire fast-paced we’ve got this teaser in front of it that’s very rapid-fire fast-paced that hasn’t even been officially released online well they’re currently doing reshoots for the film right now yeah I’m sure they’ll want to include a lot of those action shots in the trailer I do suspect that nothing of note marketing guys will happen with this film until after the Joker because I don’t think Warner Brothers wants to confuse audiences about whether or not Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker is tie it in any way to Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn I don’t think that I think we’ll get a trailer with the Joker movie we’ll see in other news Hailee Steinfeld has been offered the role of Kate Bishop and the upcoming kakai Disney Plus series now Kate Bishop is from the New Avengers she’s an expert marksman just like Clint Barton and I think in this television show she’s gonna be trained by Clint to kind of take over his role and it doesn’t surprise me because we know that Hailee Steinfeld can lead a film she did so with bumblebee right she was in pitch perfect 2 and oh the age of 17 I think it was called that was a great film and by the time she films this she’s gonna have experience leading her own TV show in Dickinson oh I haven’t even heard about that I am excited about this news honestly I don’t really know much about Hailee Steinfeld I’ve seen very little that she’s been in she’s a huge following I know that yes she does have a huge following and I did really liked her as the voice of Gwen Stacy in spider-man into the spider-verse I thought she did really well they’re just judging by her look I could totally see how she could pull off this character Kate Bishop is hilarious she was great in math fractions run she was kind of like Clint’s protege who also had like a crush on him but in some ways she was a lot more like emotionally mature than Clint like he was trying to train her how to be like an Avenger and everything like that Pete he was always like fucking up and getting into trouble and you know she was saving his ass and and so it kind of led for a great dynamic between the two characters and that’s kind of something I’d love to see played out here in the show and I’m sure it will like even down to the animated title card that they did for this that they debuted at comic-con it looks like they’re gonna borrow heavily from the Matt Fraction run yeah I’m really glad that Haley beat out a lot of Disney Channel stars that were vying for the role oh my gosh yes there was one actress who put out like a Twitter campaign out there her name was Artemis and she showed a video of herself shooting a bottle cap off of a bottle I mean and Artemis is an apt name for an archer and I guess she’s into archery and everything like that but the video clip that she released online was so heavily edited that it was a fucking joke I saw that she like knocked back her arrow and then released it and then there was a cut to the bottle cap of the camp flying off right then she got super excited it’s like girl you faked that it’s like if she was really that good should it be like yep that just happened yeah but again yeah it would have been like an everyday thing and besides her there were quite a few other actresses that were vying for this role in the end I think Haley is the most qualified given that she is a movie lead caliber and I think that she’ll do well alongside Jeremy Renner it seems like those two would have good chemistry based on the stuff that I have seen yeah it seems like perfect casting I know for a while there were a lot of fans who wanted her to be Batgirl how can I disappointed she didn’t end up with DC but I think she’ll make a great Kate Bishop yeah we’ll have to pick Kate Bishop against Barbara Gordon in an upcoming duel episode sometime oh that yeah let’s do that I’m excited for Hayley I think that Marvel will likely maybe even spin this off into like multiple seasons of her own show or maybe even put her in the MCU and a young Avengers film down the line or something so lots to look forward to but speaking of Disney Plus Marvel show casting that brings us to our question of the week so let’s go back to the new Disney Plus shows that were announced a few weeks ago who would you cast as ms marvel moon knight and/or she-hulk in the upcoming Disney Plus series you can give us answers for all three of those characters or just one post your answer to our Instagram Twitter Facebook or email us at dynamic duel podcast at we’ll pick our favorite answer and draw that person and dynamic duel no prize that we’ll post to social media well that does it for all the news let’s go ahead and get into the main event of this episode where we pit wally west the flash against speed ball and run simulations to find out who would win [Music] okay flash versus speedball we’re doing this match now as a tie-in to our review of the flashpoint paradox in our next episode also wally west was a member of the Teen Titans and this episode is part of our lead up to our 150th episode which is going to be a team battle between the Teen Titans and the x-men right we’re gonna have a lot of Titans and x-men focused episodes in the upcoming weeks leading up to episode 150 now speedball is not a member of the x-men he’s primarily a member of the new warriors but I thought he’d be a great matchup for Wally West and I think there’s gonna be a lot of surprises to be had within this particular duel you will see if you ever listen to one of our duel episodes before the way we approach our battles is statistics right we don’t go off of fan votes we don’t go off of feats we basically take each characters based statistics which are determined by the criteria set forth by the Marvel Power Rankings grid and we randomized those numbers in a Monte Carlo simulation and what that does is it accounts for all the variables that take place in battle by placing each stat number along a normal distribution which is a bell curve and we run these simulations a thousand times and from there we get a percentage of wins for each character now no one character ever wins 100% of the time there’s always one way for a character to defeat another as in the case of Batman and Superman right so while we declare the person with the higher percentage of wins to be the overall victor of our duel episodes it’s not to say that that person would always win is just to say that the odds favor them winning and of course this is the same approach that the TV show Deadliest Warrior used back when I was on Spike TV before we run the simulations though we like to give a breakdown of each character delving into their past and their abilities just to learn more about the characters because I don’t know much about speedball and I don’t know too much about Wally West’s history honestly once we go into their backstories and powers we like to improvise a scenario detailing how Jonathan and I see the fight actually going one of those 1000 simulations that we run and then we actually run the numbers I think it’s your turn to go first with your character’s backstory yeah let me tell you guys all about Robby Baldwin speedball who we haven’t really seen on television or movies yet although he is one of the regulars on the new warriors television show the stars Melissa Vayntrub as Squirrel Girl that they filmed a pilot for like years ago and then it still hasn’t found the network I guess it’s moving from free form and they were shopping it around to other networks but I don’t know what’s gonna happen with that show it was supposed to be really good yeah and I’m really interested in seeing it mainly because I really love the character of speedball now Robert Baldwin was born in springdale Connecticut to the actress Madeleine Naylor and district attorney Justin Baldwin he grew up in an unstable household with his parents being very different often clashing and arguing over Robbie’s future and whether he should get into law school or into the arts in late high school Robbie instead developed an interest in the sciences and interned at the Hammond research laboratory there dr. Nicholas Benson and his colleagues were developing a conduit into extra dimensional energy robbie snuck into the lab to observe the experiment and was bombarded with the energy after it overloaded the labs equipment in a freak accident and he found himself surrounded by glowing energy balls panicked he tried to flee the building but instead bounced up to the top floor and onto the roof where he witnessed four masked criminals attempting to break into the lab to steal dr. Benson’s research they fired their guns at Robbie but the bullets just bounced off of him but he defeated the criminals and went home bewildered at his new powers it turns out that the energy from dr. Benson’s experiment was from the kinetic dimension and that the glowing energy balls that surrounded Robbie were pockets of kinetic energy absorbed by a force field that would surround him upon any physical contact greater than a snap of the fingers the field would absorb the kinetic energy of any impact to his body and redirect it at a greater rate effectively things could bounce off of Robbie and he could bounce off of things dr. Benson called it the speedball effect inexperienced with the ability Robbie found himself unable to control his powers and he avoided contact with most people to prevent triggering the effect we just like send them flying if he touched him I mean it depends on how fast they ran into him but yeah they would bounce off of him huh however he began fighting crime as a costumed vigilante his parents of course having opposing ideas about costumed vigilantes between stopping criminals such as sticker boneheads and the go springdale hi Robbie spent a lot of time trying to catch dr. Benson’s cat Niels who was also caught in the energy experiment at the laboratory alongside him dr. Benson told Robbie that if he could study the cat he could help Robbie learn how to control his kinetic field though Robbie found it really difficult to catch a bouncing cat he eventually did and he learned how to use his powers better wanting to be a big-time superhero Robbie tried to join the Avengers in New York but was rejected however during his time in Manhattan he happened upon a battle taking place against Tareq’s the former Herald of Galactus Robbie joined the fray alongside a group of other young heroes like Knight Thrasher Firestar justice named Marita and Nova whom you can learn more about on our Green Lantern burrs Nova duel episode and they all formed a new superhero team called the new warriors together they defeated numerous bad guys including Gideon puppet master and psionics they rescued Robbie’s mother from a fanatical ecological organization that turned out to be a cult and doing so Robbie revealed his secret life as a costumed crime fighter to his mother who accepted his dangerous lifestyle later an evil doppelganger of speedball created by the villain the Magus used its powers to destroy Robbie’s hometown of Springdale he killed his evil duplicate but the battle led to his identity being revealed to his father who had a very different reaction than his mother and disowned his son his parents soon got a divorce in one adventure Robbie and the new warriors fought the villain Sphinx and the villain Advent who was from the future Spinks declared that Robbie’s siphoning of the kinetic dimension was creating chaos within time itself and he killed Robbie well distraught the new warriors defeated Sphinx and traveled through the kinetic dimension into the future to defeat Advent they learned that Robbie had actually been imprisoned in the kinetic dimension for several months and that the speedball that died was actually the son of advents named Darien Grove who sought to undo his father’s time manipulations after stopping Advent the new warriors traveled back to their timeline and saved speedball from the kinetic dimension along the way later the new warriors sought to improve their public image with the help of television first Robbie tried to pitch an animated series to producers but had to back away after seeing the studio’s unique take on the team eventually the new warriors got their own reality show that Chronicle to their adventures traveling across the country fighting crime in the small town of Stamford Connecticut the team happened upon a group of villains laying low in a suburban home with cameras rolling they ambushed the group and discovered they had gotten in over their heads when the villain nitro detonated himself in a massive explosion that tragically killed nearby elementary school Robbie survived the blast but was bounced over 500 miles away and fell into a coma when he awoke he learned that the Stanford explosion led to the introduction of the superhero Registration Act in Congress which would require all super-powered beings to register with shield and act in accordance to their directives essentially having the US government sanction all superhero activity it led to the superheroes civil war with nearly all of marbles heroes siding with either Captain America or Iron Man Robby also learned that all of his teammates died in the explosion along with the television crew and the villains that were present that day except for nitro Ravi was arrested and put in prison in the negative zone the psychological trauma of the incident changed Robbie’s powers so that they were no longer activated by kinetic impact but through physical pain he was forced to join Norman Osborn’s Thunderbolts team and he changed his code name from speed ball to penance fabricating an Iron Maiden type suit with 612 small spikes on the inside one for every victim at Stanford the heck they would poke him as he moved causing him pain and triggering his kinetic absorption abilities after a few Concerned talks with old friends Nova and Squirrel Girl Robby trekked nitro down to Liberia where he fought and defeated the villain Robby removed his penance costume and put it on nitro and sealed it revealing that the outfit had been designed for nitro all along to remind him of the people he killed his powers reverted to their original state and he changed his code name back to speed ball that was weird what was weird his powers psychologically were triggered by pain yeah he was depressed and it manifested in like this self-mutilation masochistic disorder Robby joined the Avengers Academy as an instructor though he was still mentally depressed cutting himself in secret on the anniversary of the Stanford incident he took his students on a field trip to see the memorial and teach them a lesson in using their powers wisely but while in Stanford a villain group sought to recreate the tragic events from years prior and Robbie quickly stopped them and defeated them alongside the residents of Stanford who informed Robbie that they had forgiven him on the mend with his sense of humor finally returning Robbie resigned from Avengers Academy and hit the road with his friend justice to start a new New Warriors team and that’s his history powers wise as mentioned before Robbie can create a kinetic energy field around himself that redirects all force and energy exerted against him for example if you were to run into a wall he would bounce off of it at a greater speed than what he ran into it the field manifests as these glowing multicolored spheres that surround him he can extend this field to protect others within his proximity and he later learned to project it offensively as explosive kinetic energy balls typically though he uses his force field to slam into his opponents and lend kinetic force to his punches and kicks and those are his powers so those energy balls are they’re not tangible they are I mean things bounce off of him and he can hurl those energy balls as force balls basically they explode upon impact interesting okay he seems like a really cool character look it was such a cool character least fun character he gets a lot of flack I mean I think the best thing about Robbie though is his sense of humor which we don’t really touch on in the history but it was quite the change of character to see him go from this bouncy pun intended humorous character to this you know like very dark brooding character right and then you’re back to it it was just a great character arc for him I think surprisingly you’ll find a lot of similarities between Robbie and Wally of course that’s how it always goes doesn’t it it’s weird so weird even he’ll like you draw their powers from like other dimensions and stuff like that yeah why does this always happen it’s cool though it’s cool all right let me get into Wally West so Wallace West a.k Wally was raised in Blue Valley Nebraska by his parents Rudolph and Mary from a young age while he idolized the flash you can learn more about in our flash vs Quicksilver episode I mean the flesh Barry Allen yes gotcha as the president and sole member of the Blue Valley flash fan club while he was ecstatic when he got the chance to travel to Central City at age 10 to spend the summer with his aunt iris West Central City was protected by the flash whom his aunt’s boyfriend Barry Allen claimed to be friends with Oh Barry was a forensic scientist and introduced Wally to the flash in his crime lab where the overwhelmed Wally asked his hero question after question including how he got his powers the flash showed Wally his chemical cabinet which he set up to be identical to the night that lightning struck the lab and he was doused and energized chemicals in that moment surprisingly lightning struck the same place twice and wally was caught in the same accident that gave Barry his powers the flash told Wally to keep his accident a secret and he gave Wally a tailored flash costume thus Wally became the Flash’s sidekick Kid Flash Barry Allen eventually revealed to Wally his secret identity as the flash and updated while he’s costume from being a duplicate of his to one predominantly yellow kid Flash’s iconic costume over time Kid Flash became a founding member of the Teen Titans along with fellow sidekicks Robin and Aqualad their team eventually expanded though after many adventures while he began feeling intense pain when using his speed something that briefly affected him during adolescence and he quit his superhero career to attend Tiger University he was brought out of early retirement however during the crisis on Infinite Earths storyline where a blast from the universe destroying anti-monitor dropped his top speed to that of sound but also took away his pain when using his powers his mentor Barry Allen sacrificed himself to stop the destruction of the universe and to honor his legacy while he took up Barry’s costume and mantle until he believed Barry would return to reclaim it eventually while he psychologically came to grips with a possibility that Barry wasn’t returning the stress of which sometimes caused him to drop in speed even further despite winning 6.5 million dollars in the lottery his depression made it so that he could only muster a fraction of Barry’s speed after losing both his fortune in the stock market and his powers completely during the invasion storyline his friends attempted to imbue him with his powers once again by spraying him with forensic chemicals and electrocuting him which simple Wally’s consciousness to another dimension and turned his body into a quill covered Speed monster well during that incident he first met his future wife a news reporter named Linda Park after Wally’s mind and body were restored he moved to Keystone City where Linda lived and became a mechanic for the Keystone City Police Department once while he got settled his mentor Barry Allen seemingly returned from the dead though it was later revealed to be a Oh bard Thawne aka professor zoom the reverse-flash who was impersonating Barry with the help of several other speedsters while he was able to override the mental blocks he had developed in fear of replacing Barry Allen as the flash and regained his full power and speed allowing him to defeat professor zoom Wally had discovered the Speed Force a dimension of energy that he and other speedsters had been tapping into in order to defy the laws of physics over time while he learned to access the Speed Force and manipulate its energy to achieve abilities that no speedsters before him had ever had including sharing or draining speed from other objects or people not long after Wally became a core member of the Justice League of America the villains avatar also learned to siphon energy from the Speed Force and wally was forced to move fast enough to convert avatar into Speed Force energy and face him out of existence though he was successful while he almost merged with the Speed Force as well and when he pulled back he was transported into the far future and he went on several future adventures as his body slowly returned to the normal vibrational frequency of his present time Wally and Linda later married and after the Flash’s rogues teamed up to prove again and again how difficult they can make Wally’s life while he encountered his greatest threat in hunter zolomon a police detective who became the villain zoom after Gorilla Grodd paralyzed him the flash refused to go back in time to stop that incident from happening feeling that the flash lacked empathy zolomon attempted to travel back in time himself using barry allen’s time-traveling cosmic treadmill only for it to explode on him and allow him to shift through moments in time Barry Allen has a time machine that’s a treadmill yes yep interesting since Wally lucked into his powers as a child Solomon took it upon himself to make Wally a better more empathetic hero by killing the Flash’s pregnant wife Linda jeez Wally was forced to borrow the Speed Force from every speedster around including a time-traveling Barry Allen from the past in order to reach the time-shifting zoom while he saved Linda but the ordeal caused her to miscarry her twin babies with the help of hell Jordan as the spectre Wally West’s identity as the flash which had been publicly known since while he took up his mentor’s mantle was erased from public memory a subsequent fight between the flash and zoom restored Linda’s pregnancy and she gave birth to twin children during the Infinite Crisis storyline Wally and the rest of the speedsters joined forces to merge the villains superboy-prime who you can learn more about in our Superboy vs. rogue episode into the Speed Force Linda and their speedster children joined Wally and the others as they all merged with the Speed Force Wally and his family lived happily in an alternate reality imparting their Speed Force energy into Bart Allen Barry Allen’s future grandson and Wally sidekick so that he alone could return to the world and carry on the mantle of the flash while he later returned after the Legion of super-heroes a team from the future generated a Speed Force lightning bolt to capture Bart just as he died to return him to his future timeline Wally and his family returned to the world on that same lightning bolt after Barry Allen returns during the final crisis event he refused to let Wally give up the flash mantle acknowledging that he had earned it when Barry seemingly created the post flashpoint new 52 reality that reset DC Comics continuity wally west as we knew him was not a part of that reality his consciousness cited in the speedforce outside of reality and it was he alone that remembered the old continuity and realized that the new reality wasn’t Barry’s doing but dr. Manhattan’s of the Watchmen universe well oh these are like new revelations huh yeah this is rebirth Barry was able to rescue Wally from the Speed Force and pull him into the new reality and thanks to his prolonged - connection to the Speed Force while he emerged even faster than before though he began suffering from temporal seizures due to the stress of not having his children and the knowledge that he was as supposed to be a part of this reality how do you get faster than how fast he already was which was like Lightspeed you just do don’t question it - worry about it okay it’s the Speed Force that’s your answer for everything I got the answer every question I had for Barry Allen’s bio hmm that’s a story so far essentially gotcha powers wise Wally West is the de facto fastest man alive the only speedster who has been able to mainline directly into the Speed Force you can move react and think a speeds faster than lights you can impart speed into other people or objects including his body allowing it to heal faster you can also absorb kinetic energy sapping other people or objects of their speed he can vibrate his molecules fast enough to travel through matter or become nearly invisible and he could travel fast enough to enter the Speed Force and travel through time that’s Wally West I thought if a speedster moves faster than the speed of light he merges with the Speed Force light speed isn’t necessarily that limit you can go a little bit faster than the speed of light beyond the speed of light is the limit at which you merge with the Speed Force do you uh you feel like he’s a little bit overpowered he is the most overpowered character probably in DC Comics it’s like DC takes this concept of running fast yes you know and all of a sudden they haven’t run so fast that it can’t be explained by physics so they have to introduce the concept of the Speed Force and then they have the concept of the Speed Force and then you have writers who don’t know how to use it realistically realistically is not the right word but within the certain amount of parameters to avoid situations like this where you have a character who is essentially limitless in everything that he can do but obviously month-to-month keeps himself within certain limitations so that he’s not just you know protecting the entire world to the entire time killing all of his villains before they can even have a chance to think that they want to hurt him yeah that’s more like Kingdom Come flesh well he doesn’t move the speed of light all the time but he could if you wanted to yes although he Wally doesn’t even have the most ridiculous feet that belongs to Barry Allen who says that he can move faster than a nanosecond uh-huh but you said that Wally West can move so fast he can travel through time essentially whenever he wants to yes he’s the only speedster who can really do that Barry Allen needs his cosmic treadmill so dumb I’m just gonna say DC’s stupid like what the fuck like keep your shit in control DC has so many examples of characters like this you take Superman you take Martian Manhunter all these characters where they just keep extrapolating like oh he can shape-shift oh that means he has complete control over every single DNA strand that he has and he can develop any superpower that he wants oh how do you get that from that you know it’s so it’s so dumb I mean and there’s a little bit of that when it comes to Marvel in the case of like you know Silver Surfer sometimes Hulk Iron Man occasionally it’s kind of weird how characters evolve through the years I think DC is guilty of evolving them too much too quickly DC characters are more like the Greek gods they’re mythological though these archetypes right right they’re less characters then ideas and therefore they’re not as well-defined as the Marvel characters which is why they’re not as good they’re better they’re better than good oh my god I’m perfect Oh me again all right so now that we’ve gone over the histories and abilities and bitched about you know DC’s overpowering of their characters we like to go into the improvised scenario that we create where we talk about how one of these 1000 simulated battles though we run will play out we don’t have any rules for this matchup save for the fact that the environment has no bearing on the match itself because we don’t take stats for the environment and certain characters have advantages in some locations over others and each character has to win on their own mayor basically no outside help they don’t know anything about each other other than that the opponent is someone that needs to be put down and is a threat and they start off about and fifty meters apart on the battlefield so with all that said who goes first I’ll tell you who goes first the faster one the flash okay sure obviously we’re so right at the gate flash at Lightspeed just slams his fist right into speedballs face yeah that seems like something he would do right considering he knows nothing about speed ball and that fist just bounces right off and while he goes flying backwards a little bit faster than the speed that he collided with speed ball so faster than the speed of light he may have gone fast enough to merge with the Speed Force meaning he went back in time started this match over from the beginning like God and then realized hey I shouldn’t start the battle off that way so when the flash merged with the Speed Force went back in time what happened to that time lines version of the flash it doesn’t exist anymore you don’t need to worry about it what he’s rewriting history no that’s not how it works no tie travel in this shit yes unless he can rewind time which he can’t do no you can’t rewind time no no all ravi saw was basically maybe just like the quickest flash of something hitting him and then just blinking out of existence basically and then he was like I guess I win no we’re on to a new separate timeline no we stick with one timeline in these duels okay then the flash makes his way back to that timeline now he was like okay now I know what not to do huh so instead he runs up to speed ball and runs around him in circles creating a vacuum pulling the air away from speed ball speed ball doesn’t need air when he’s surrounded in his kinetic force field so he sees this whirlwind being circling around him and so he decides just to run in any direction and he runs and he plows into the flash and he bounces off of him and he starts bouncing and building up momentum within this vortex that the flash is creating and that does what and it builds up enough kinetic energy within speed ball that he unleashes it and it explodes the flash away from him and he’s like super hurt super hurts yeah maybe Wally has a few ribs broken and shit okay okay well then while he channels the Speed Force into his ribs so that they heal faster what can’t he do I hate him well while Wally is healing ball bounces towards him actually he takes a few bounces so that he built up enough momentum and he bounces towards him and he just plows right into Wally mid-heel and breaks another few ribs okay but while he can perceive time at a faster rate so he sees speed while moving towards him like almost in slow motion and a right when he’s about to hit Wally that’s when Wally vibrates his molecules and speed ball just bounces right through him and it bounces like far away yes okay so the flash chases after him as speed ball is about to land again that’s when he grabs his his legs and just slams him into the ground guess what as the flash reaches up to grab speed balls legs his hands just bounce off of Robbie’s ankles he’s not punching cam it doesn’t matter it’s physical content he’s just like moving him closer to the ground faster you can’t make physical contact with Robbie without being redirected let’s dump so how does the flash gonna injure him in any way exactly speed ball really can’t be injured with his force field you say the flash is a piece of shit you can’t even be hurt yeah but speed balls not with some kind of like time speed god although he was stated to be an embodiment of time and space by one of his New Warriors colleagues due to his connection with the kinetic dimension yeah it’s weird interesting it was mentioned once I don’t really buy it okay so the flash when he moves he leaves a trail of electric energy so what’s the flash realizes that he essentially can’t touch speed ball that’s when he runs around to him really fast again but not long enough for Speed ball to react he leaves the electricity in his lake and he electrocutes speed ball except the lightning bolt bounces off of speed ball bullshit what are you talking about its energy it’s not physical well I mean fire has bounced off of a speed ball before what yeah it’s hit or miss sometimes energy affects him sometimes it doesn’t well maybe a few lightning bolts bounce off but the flash is creating enough energy here that it’s just gonna overload whatever kind of kinetic field that speed ball has I’m not gonna argue against that I mean something like that has happened before so so eventually you’re saying that speed ball gets electrocuted just by being overloaded with so much energy that his field can only repel so much sure that’s weird but I’ll accept it so speedball is getting electrocuted right yes one thing that I didn’t tell you is that speedball has also retained his penance powers meaning that as he gets injured as he feels physical pain he also stores up kinetic energy from that what yeah so he’s getting good executed he’s feeling pain his penance powers start building up and he shoots out this massive kinetic blast that’s like a giant Ryu Hadouken and it just like hits the flash and totally like atomizes him it’s like a force blast yeah okay this force blast I’m assuming he’s just shooting it in like one direction it’s not like omnidirectional right correct okay well then the flash just runs behind speedball oh my god and dodge you’re supposedly alright so speedballs sees that he missed and he turns around he sees the flash and he still he says all this kinetic energy built up within him even though he’s still recovering from being electrocuted he just throws these kinetic energy balls okay starts hurling him in all directions basically and they explode upon impact okay well cue the bullet time because speedball thinks he’s hurtling these things at fast speed but to the flash they’re moving in slow motion and so he’s just like expertly like ducking and weaving through this maze of kinetic ball energy inching closer and closer by the nanosecond towards speedball okay at which point he vibrates his hand and plunges it into speed ball which it’s it’s not a physical touch it’s not anything so he can’t react to it and then he solidifies his hand and then uh I would think that if he’s vibrating through speed balls kinetic field his hand would vibrate like even faster as I made contact with it due to the repelling force and it would vibrate so fast that his hand would just vibrate the fuck off that’s that cool you just lost his hand no healing from that kick grow back a new hand I have no basis for that I just thought that was a cool yeah that’s fine yeah I think that works the flesh rents off and he’s like really hurt right now so he starts vibrating fast enough so that he becomes like invisible essentially as he’s like trying to speed up the healing of his now stump arm that’s horrible all right so Ravi is like looking for him and he can’t see him so he probably thinks he won he probably thinks like he blasted him away with his kinetic energy balls probably is not even aware what happened when the flash tried to phase into him okay so with speed ball when speed ball isn’t looking when he’s looking in the wrong direction the flash speeds up to him and punches him like really hard in the back of the neck like to paralyze him okay and his face bounces off okay but as his fist is bouncing off the flashes drains his own speed his own kinetic energy okay so that he stops and then just plows right into speed ball again and then just keeps doing this until he’s applying some kind of pressure to speed ball this all happens really fast okay so instead of bouncing off of Robbie he’s forcing Robbie to bounce off of him through his ability to control his own kinetic momentum yes essentially he’s just like it’s pushing Robbie in a direction with his fist yes yeah right into the ground and he’s just gonna like hold him there against the ground and make him like bounce infinitely between his fists on the ground exactly at which point he explodes with kinetic energy again but the flesh knows that trick he saps all of that kinetic energy okay he might be able to do that but essentially the flash is still not hurting speedball he’s just creating an infinite loop where speed ball bounces infinitely and doesn’t make the flash bounce away right that’s what I could wait this out I could travel through time what happened in the Stanford incident is that eventually speed balls kinetic field kind of overloaded and dissipated he bounced like five hundred miles away and in the process he drained his powers so I guess maybe if you give it long enough time I could see that happening in this case but I still think that speed ball would eventually build up so much kinetic momentum that the flash would not be able to absorb it agree to disagree well leave the match there sure it’s such a weird that’s such a weird scenario okay so we’ll go ahead and run the stat on these characters and place them in the simulator and come back to you guys with the winner all right we input all the stats and judging off your reaction to the results I’m really horrified and or intrigued by what’s gonna end up happening here yes so I have the results here let’s get into the stats though how did they compare well flash is obviously faster than speed ball so you ball can accelerate up to a very high speed but flash is just is incomparable light speed there’s no comparison when it comes to strength and fighting skill and damage level even they were pretty tip kinetic energy to their attacks to make him a little bit you know beefier they both have similar fight training speed ball was trained by an AI Thrasher of the New Warriors after initially getting rejected from the Avengers for not having any fight training I said they’re comparable on damage but we did give a slight edge to speed ball right these things of how explosive he is right his kinetic energy and speed ball has a greater range than the flash being able to project his kinetic field outward over a wider area simultaneously than what the flash could likely do the flesh really has no range and you really don’t need it when you’re as fast as he is he can’t occasionally toss lightning bolts but it’s actually really rare for him to do that so we said he has a very limited range uh-huh when it comes to durability the flash we gave the edge to biggest of his regenerative healing ability evasiveness wise these guys able to avoid being hurt greater than probably any two superheroes out there yeah they’re basically maxed out on the rear base of NIST and it’s really hard to hit him and hurt him and intelligence wise yeah well he’s smarter than speed ball they’re both kind of jokester characters right but Wally West has just been in the game for so long he’s just experienced so much life and he has an actual career than you know other than costume adventurer right right speed ball is pretty average so looking at the stats who do you think came out on top they seemed pretty even so I’m gonna go with who I want to win I think speed balls gonna win this so I thought the flash was gonna win in a landslide but it looks like the two characters are much more comparable than I thought the winner of the match is speed bullets yes but barely really barely speed ball out of a thousand matches one 517 as comparable the flashes 483 well that’s within our margin of error so this is technically a coin toss match our margin of error being 2.5 percent so about 25 wins so if you’re within 525 it’s a coin toss yeah it’s it’s a 50-50 split almost these don’t understand how this was a 50-50 split I mean Wally West is a freaking God uh-huh speed ball who the fuck is speed ball oh you’ll know the speed ball is now essentially it just boils down to the fact that these two characters can’t really be hit and if one of them can be hit I would say that Wally is more likely to be hit even though he has the speed of light just because he doesn’t have a force field around him that reflects everything that comes into contact with them this is bullshit no it’s not like one of the most upset I’ve ever been at results cuz there’s no way no way Wally West should have lost this I think the biggest disparity in their stats was the range factor that is what killed Wally that was it so theory so TC needs to give Wally like shooting lightning out of his eyes super power why not theoretically the way the speed ball is able to win a slight majority of these battles is by keeping the flash at a distance it seems theoretically that also seems really hard to do give him the nature of the Flash’s powers and how he’s able to dodge projectiles but eventually I guess if speed ball absorbs enough kinetic energy he can he can throw out so much that it makes it just too hard for the flash to dodge yeah I don’t like it I don’t like it at all I love this I feel like we’re gonna get a lot of flack from the Wally West’s supporters out there because there’s a lot of them well Barry Allen beat Quicksilver so they can get over it I’m heartbroken hey I mean technically this is a coin toss right yeah if you ran the simulations again it’s likely that the Wally West would come out on top now that being said much yeah that being said we’d never rerun the results the results we get the first time as always whoa with and they always go into your favor thank God like fuckin always thanks God that does it for this episode right in angry letters to us dynamic duo podcast @ you can also reach us on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter really Facebook is for like fan interaction Instagram is for like the cool graphics that we create in Twitter so like news yeah that’s sort of what it seems to be you could of course find a link to all of our social media accounts on our website dynamic duel comm where you’ll find a link to our merchandise store which is on T public for this episode I will be putting up a image of speedball with this thumb of posess what the fuck cuz I’m so bitter now it’ll be a cool speedball shirt it’ll be fun to draw yeah so look forward to that yeah I’d buy that thanks guys for listening to this episode again we’ll be reviewing Justice League the flashpoint paradox in our next episode continuing along these Titans and x-men themed shows leading up to the big episode 150 please don’t forget to rate review share and subscribe our show with your friends and family especially on social media especially for Apple podcasts if you have already given us a rating on Apple podcasts and you know someone else who hasn’t please make sure to let them know that they totally should that goes for you James and Mary it’s your turn you got to do it called you out we’ll talk to you guys next week up up and away true believers

Listen to Dynamic Duel: DC vs Marvel


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