Cover art for podcast ZigZag

ZigZag

75 EpisodesProduced by TED and Stable Genius ProductionsWebsite

ZigZag, the business show about being human, returns as a member of the TED Audio Collective.  Join this zig-zagging quest with Manoush Zomorodi (Host of NPR’s TED Radio Hour; Fast Company’s 100 Most Creative People in Business) to discover new ways we can align our professional ambitions with our p… read more

75 Episodes | 2018 - 2024

Introducing ZigZag!

May 29th, 2018

2:50

A new podcast about women and tech. And the blockchain. And anxiety. First two episodes drop June 14th! But meanwhile come say hi at Stableg.com and sign up for our newsletter.

ZigZag is the business show about being …

Chapter 1: Meet the Stable Geniuses

June 14th, 2018

21:12

Manoush and Jen just formed a new kind of media company. But is it possible for them to simultaneously be entrepreneurs, mission-driven journalists, …

Chapter 2: Blockchain. Blockwhat?!

June 14th, 2018

25:26

Manoush and Jen have a LOT of questions. Should they stake their careers on the blockchain? How can they explain it without sounding like …

Chapter 3: Higher Than We Knew

June 21st, 2018

27:14

In Chapters 1 and 2, Jen and Manoush decide to gamble their future on new technology that hasn’t been proven and a virtual currency that doesn’t …

Chapter 4: Hedging Your Bets

June 28th, 2018

34:52

Manoush and Jen give themselves 36 hours in San Francisco to come up with a financial backup plan, just in case this whole blockchain-token-thing …

Chapter 5: Men, Women and Vulnerability

July 5th, 2018

26:06

With Civil’s token launch looming, Manoush and Jen go for one last gut check with the guys who helped inspire their meta journey: Alex Blumberg and Matt Lieber, co-founders of Gimlet Media. Season One of their hugely …

Chapter 6: What's a CVL Token?

July 12th, 2018

20:46

A heady cocktail of cryptoeconomics and game theory is fueling Civil’s big plan to save journalism. Add a “token curated registry” to the mix and it’s enough to give everyone a virtual hangover. Luckily, economist

Chapter 7: A New Frontier for Journalism?

July 19th, 2018

38:47

The time has come. Civil, the blockchain startup for journalism, made its big announcement: members of the public can now register to buy its digital currency, the CVL token. But Manoush and Jen are surprised by the …

Chapter 8: Putting Crypto Pioneers to the Test

July 26th, 2018

29:56

It’s true. ZigZag listeners agree that registering to buy CVL tokens is a pain in the ass. And yet, many still plan to join Civil’s experimental social network for journalism. On this episode, listeners ask tough …

Chapter 9: Letter from Startup-Blockchain-Women-Entrepreneurland

August 2nd, 2018

19:59

Civil postpones its token sale until September and lowers expectations of how much the sale can generate. Meanwhile, Manoush and Jen are floored by emails from listeners about the changes they’ve made in their lives …

Chapter 10: Listening to Anthony Bourdain

August 9th, 2018

32:03

Anthony Bourdain did a very unusual interview a few months before his death: he spent an afternoon with Maria Bustillos, founder of Popula.com and …

Chapter 11: Ten Things You Should Know About Crypto

August 16th, 2018

29:38

From Crypto Kitties to Bitcoin Carnivores, the world of crypto is like a weird parallel reality, hidden just out of plain sight from most of us. This top ten countdown will grant you powers to see previously-invisible …

Chapter 12: Enter the Mesh

August 23rd, 2018

40:47

Manoush and Jen wrap up Season One* by interviewing Joe Lubin, co-founder of the Ethereum blockchain, about his involvement with Civil and whether …

Update: It’s Hard Going Back to School, Work, and Saving Journalism

September 6th, 2018

23:58

Never heard ZigZag? Start with Season One, Chapter One.

This is an update episode between Seasons 1 and 2 of ZigZag. 
On Sept 20, we'll have a special report on the Civil token sale.

Season Two officially starts on …

The Civil Token Sale is Live

September 20th, 2018

23:51

Manoush and Jen explain the latest news on Civil’s token sale. They also admit why they're a little uneasy about some recent press coverage of their endeavors, and try to make sense of one man’s failed attempt at #MeToo …

Announcing Season Two of ZigZag

October 4th, 2018

2:53

ZigZag is BACK on October 11 for Season Two. The theme is Trust + Information. Listen to the trailer to hear what Jen and Manoush have planned...and click here to learn how to get the podcast delivered to you every …

S2 EP1: How Misinformation Spreads

October 11th, 2018

36:42

Manoush and Jen kick off the season with surprising new research from the Knight Foundation into how false information spreads on Twitter and its effect on society. They also have news about Civil, the blockchain …

S2 EP2: Why Civil's Token Sale Failed

October 18th, 2018

43:47

Civil couldn't convince enough people that blockchain and crypto-economics were the answer to journalism’s problems. It didn't even come close to its …

S2 EP3: Trusting Yourself in Startup-Entrepreneurland

October 25th, 2018

34:13

Hear from three entrepreneurs (Jen, Manoush, and Civil Media CEO Matthew Iles) on how each is coping with uncertainty, deciding how to grow, and bouncing back when things go...well, badly, like that token sale you heard …

S2 EP4: What IS Fact-Checking?

November 1st, 2018

27:49

This week's episode is focused on a very specialized job in journalism: the Fact-Checker. Our guide is journalism's OG of information verification, …

S2 EP5: Meat World Matters

November 8th, 2018

30:11

Meat world, real life, 'social infrastucture'...whatever you want to call it, human contact with our neighbors is crucial to mending divided …

S2 EP6: A Secret #MeToo Weapon

November 15th, 2018

28:57

Can you scrub the truth from the web? Or will people always find a workaround? An extraordinary tale this week about the intersection of new tech, personal stories, human rights, and repressive regimes. Plus, producer

S2 EP7: Forget Inbox Zero

November 22nd, 2018

21:35

This week, we explain how the ZigZag inbox works and Manoush answers two very special letters: one from a listener with an unusual financial frustration and another who has an existential entrepreneurial query. Because …

S2 EP8: The Women Who Make CRIMINAL

November 28th, 2018

37:27

CRIMINAL was a mega-hit long before the genre of true-crime took off in podcasting. On this episode, Manoush and Jen talk to the show's co-creators, Phoebe Judge and Lauren Spohrer, about quitting their stable public …

S2 EP9: Julia Angwin's Investigations Haunt Facebook

December 6th, 2018

38:16

Julia Angwin, the award-winning reporter whose investigations make Facebook sweat, just got $20 million from Craig Newmark (yes, as in Craig's List) …

S2 BONUS: The Story of ZigZag Through Voice Memos

December 6th, 2018

13:00

It's been an extraordinarily weird year. This mini episode compresses Manoush and Jen's story so far into a strange mash-up of voice memos that documents their leap from public radio producers to audio entrepreneurs …

S2 EP10: An App for Information Overload?

December 13th, 2018

33:37

Journalists-turned-entrepreneurs Mark Little and Áine Kerr believe the experience of getting news online is broken. (And they should know: Mark …

S2 EP11: If Capitalism and Socialism Had a Baby

December 20th, 2018

26:26

The richest 1 percent of the world's population now owns more than half of the world's wealth. The calls for breaking up Big Tech companies are …

S2 EP12: Lessons Learned from a Risky Crypto Experiment

December 20th, 2018

41:55

The co-founders of Stable Genius Productions have a candid conversation about their current financial situation (hint: their grant is running out soon), the highs/lows of making this season of the podcast (another hint: …

S3 EP1: The Lifecycle of an Idea

January 17th, 2019

33:02

You may *feel *like a special snowflake, but even our best ideas usually take a predictable path: they'll pass through the 5 Phases of the Hype Cycle. Tech analyst Jackie Fenn created this iconic graph (see below) 25 …

S3 EP2: What Triggers Innovation

January 31st, 2019

22:58

Question: what SPARKS us to *act *on an idea, rather than let it fade away? Answer: an "Innovation Trigger," also known as Phase 1 of the Hype Cycle

S3 EP3: The Peak of Expectations

February 14th, 2019

36:04

As we continue through the Hype Cycle, we reach the fun, thrilling, titillating phase: the Peak of Expectations. It generates the vital inspiration and adrenaline that keeps every entrepreneur or visionary going (that …

S3 EP4: The Trough of Disillusionment

February 28th, 2019

30:49

Our journey through the Hype Cycle takes a dark turn this week. Because every innovative idea, sadly, must pass through the third (and most …

S3 EP5: The Slope of Enlightenment

March 14th, 2019

30:07

We're almost at the end of our deep-dive into the lifecycle of innovation, or the so-called Hype Cycle. Phase Four, aka the Slope of Enlightenment, …

S3 EP06: The Plateau of Productivity

March 28th, 2019

25:23

What IS that anti-climactic feeling we get after completing a big project? Shouldn’t we be patting ourselves on the back and mixing celebratory …

S4 EP01: Manoush and Jen Became Entrepreneurs One Year Ago

April 11th, 2019

43:14

On the launch episode of Season Four, Jen and Manoush celebrate the first anniversary of their company, Stable Genius Productions, and share the most …

S4 EP02: An Alternative To Silicon Valley's "Unicorn" Bullsh*t

April 25th, 2019

44:43

Founded by Jenn Brandel and Mara Zapeda, the growing Zebras Unite network is a backlash against Silicon Valley's so-called "unicorn" companies.

Many …

Bonus: Our Old Podcast is Back! Here's a Taste.

April 25th, 2019

35:59

The tech show about being human returns with an all new season exclusively on the new Luminary app. Manoush kicks things off with the latest on the battle between kids and parents over their screens: do we know how kids …

S4 EP03: Adam Grant Says Your Next Boss Might Want You to "Self Manage"

May 2nd, 2019

41:01

The workplace has become a place of sociological experimentation. But what are the pros and cons to “flattening” hierarchy or employees giving each …

S4 EP04: When Your Gut Tells You It's Time to END Your Company

May 16th, 2019

47:07

We hear a lot about how people start up companies but what about winding them down? After 15 years, media entrepreneur and "influencer" Grace Bonney has decided to close her lifestyle blog Design*Sponge. In this …

S4 EP05: The Venture Capitalist Asking Existential Questions

May 30th, 2019

40:58

We went looking for a venture capitalist who is investing in products or platforms that make money AND make our lives a bit saner: Caterina Fake co-founded Flickr, coined the acronym FOMO, and is now a partner at Yes VC

S4 EP06: Why Craiglist's Founder Just Wrote Consumer Reports a $6m Check

June 6th, 2019

41:33


Consumer Reports
, theOG‘s of product reviews, just got an upgrade: $6 million from Craigslist founder turned philanthropist,Craig Newmark. On this special episode, he and the CEO of Consumer Reports,Marta Tellado, …

S4 EP07: 46, Female, and Ambitious. Is that so wrong?

June 20th, 2019

42:22

You've probably heard her hundreds of times. Mallory Kasdan is the voice of dozens of ads, from Crest White Strips to Nickelodeon. For years, she made an excellent living sounding like the quintessential "hip mom" or …

S4 EP08: The Weird Kids At The Big Tech Party

June 27th, 2019

44:25

Before Silicon Valley was dominated by the Big Five tech companies, there was Mozilla, an organization founded by a motley crew of coders and …

S4 EP09: Is Your Career Veering Off Course...Or Just Doing a Zigzag?

July 11th, 2019

32:05

It can be hard to know if you're on the right track for building your career or business. Manoush and Jen consider crucial lessons from entrepreneurs whom they've reported on over the past five years, including a CEO

S4 EP10: This is What a Male Identity Crisis Sounds Like

July 18th, 2019

50:01

Eighteen months. That's how long Khe Hy (pronounced Kay Hee) gave himself to figure out his life after quitting his extremely well-paid job at Blackrock Financials. His friends called him nuts. His immigrant parents …

S4 EP11: Pacing Yourself After Burnout

July 25th, 2019

43:10


Two years ago, Helen Zaltzman and her husband, Martin Austwick, gave up their London apartment to travel the world. She paid the bills by continuing to produce her two podcasts, The Allusionist and Answer Me This, from …

S4 EP12: We're Rethinking What Success Looks Like

September 12th, 2019

36:41


ZigZag is back after a brief hiatus and kicking off a series of shows investigating how people are rethinking the notion of “success.”


On this episode, listeners share their frustrations with an economy structured to …

S4 EP 13: The CEO Who Paid Everyone the $ame $alary. Including Himself.

September 19th, 2019

50:32

Dan Price, the founder of Gravity Payments, became a media darling in 2015 after announcing that every employee would be paid a minimum of $70k. …

Bonus: Manoush Guest Hosts the TED Radio Hour!

September 20th, 2019

17:21

We're excited that Manoush is guest hosting the Ted Radio Hour! To celebrate, we're bringing you her 2017 TED Talk. It's all about our relationship …

S4 EP14: When Women Don't Support Other Women at Work

September 26th, 2019

37:34

In 2015, Katharine Zaleski wrote an op-ed for Fortune that went viral called I’m Sorry to All the Mothers I Worked With. In it, the former media exec …

S4 EP15: The Secret Ex-Rock Star at The Ford Foundation

October 10th, 2019

25:09

With her band Tsunami and record label Simple Machines, Jenny Toomey was a fixture on the '90s Washington, D.C. indie music scene. On this episode, …

EP16: Ari Weinzweig is Prototyping a New Kind of Delicious Capitalism

October 24th, 2019

37:00

If you live in Michigan or run your company with a bit of an anarchist bent, you've likely heard of the Zingerman's Community of Businesses, including a coffee roaster, creamery, and candy factory, all co-owned and …

Bonus: “The Surveillance Economy” from IRL

October 28th, 2019

26:25

This week, we’re featuring an episode from the IRL podcast called “The Surveillance Economy.” Learn about the rise of surveillance capitalism, and …

S4 EP17: Helping Your Relationship Survive Your Job

October 31st, 2019

42:07

Double-career couples are the norm these days. But when organizational behaviorist Jennifer Petriglieri looked for studies on how these couples manage their professional and personal responsibilities, she found little …

S4 EP18: Don't Tie a Pink Ribbon for Kate Pickert

November 7th, 2019

27:38

After an onerous cancer diagnosis, Kate Pickert nearly skipped an interview for a job she desperately wanted. Her husband encouraged her to go, saying, "You never know. Maybe you won't die!" Pickert got the job...and …

S4 EP19: The Guy Who Quit Planes for Good

November 14th, 2019

33:24

For millions of us, air travel comes with the job. NASA physicist Peter Kalmus was no different; he frequently flew to prestigious conferences around the globe to present his research. But then, on a routine flight in …

S4 EP20: How Valerie Jarrett Turned Her Misery Into Motivation

November 28th, 2019

47:59

Valerie Jarrett‘s fascinating family defied racism to become some of the most influential African-Americans you’ve likely never heard of, including one of Louisiana’s first black legislators and MIT’s first black …

S4 EP21: Being Ethnically Ambiguous At Work

December 5th, 2019

44:45

As co-host of NPR’s Code SwitchShereen Marisol Meraji combines groundbreaking reporting on race and culture with her own personal experience as a …

S4 EP22: Mailchimp’s CEO On Building a Multi-Billion Dollar Business Without Being an A$$hole

December 12th, 2019

49:28

The newsletter company Mailchimp made an impressive $700 million dollars in revenue in 2019 and, after 20 years, it’s still owned and operated by …

End of A Partnership

May 7th, 2020

35:53

Two years ago, Jen and Manoush quit their jobs and became business partners. Today their adventure comes to an end. Hear how financial and parenting pressures in the age of COVID-19 forced them to make a hard choice. …

The zigs and zags just keep coming. Welcome to Season 5.

July 16th, 2020

2:58

ZigZag, the business podcast about being human, returns as a member of the TED family of podcasts. 

Join this zig-zagging quest with Manoush Zomorodi (Host of NPR’s TED Radio Hour; Fast Company’s 100 Most Creative …

S5 EP1: Eric Ries' Radical Stock Market Experiment

July 23rd, 2020

38:54

When Eric Ries wrote The Lean StartUp he had no idea his book would inspire a new generation of entrepreneurs to ‘pivot’ and ‘iterate.’ Now Eric is …

S5 EP2: Why Arlan Hamilton Still Believes Capitalism is the Great Equalizer

July 30th, 2020

42:17

In 2018, Backstage Capital's Arlan Hamilton was on the cover of Fast Company magazine. The headline was irresistible: homeless, gay, Black woman becomes hot-shot Silicon Valley investor. But the reality is that Black …

S5 EP3: Can Big Tech Be Healed?

August 6th, 2020

34:23

From his posts at Harvard and M.I.T.Greg Epstein observed that the tech industry– with its hierarchies and sacred texts–looked a lot like a religion…and his students worshipped at the alter of Elon Musk. The chaplain …

S5 EP4: Carrie Goldberg is the Troll Slayer

August 13th, 2020

34:08

Carrie Goldberg‘s legal career changed course the year her ex-boyfriend relentlessly cyber-harassed her. At the time, the First Amendment protected …

S5 EP5: Changing Our Relationship to STUFF

August 20th, 2020

37:18

We recycle. But does it make a difference?
We donate our old t-shirts. But does anyone want them?
We try to shop less. But isn't that bad for the …

S5 EP6: The Case of the Lost American Dream

August 27th, 2020

51:12


You may have heard Aarti Shahani’s voice on the radio when she was NPR’s Silicon Valley reporter. The techies she interviewed often assumed she came …

S6 EP1 STEP 1: THE PULSE

March 25th, 2021

20:46

We’re doing something different this season…

S6 EP2 STEP 2: THE VISION

April 8th, 2021

16:46

Conflict resolution specialist Priya Parker joins Manoush to talk about visioning: Taking time out of our daily lives to clarify our professional and …

S6 EP3 STEP 3: THE WEIRD IDEAS

April 22nd, 2021

16:55

The third step of The ZigZag Project requires getting weird. Because we're gonna need to dig deep to find new ways to roll back climate change, bring …

S6 EP4 STEP 4: THE MATCH

May 6th, 2021

16:35

On this episode of The ZigZag Project, we move into a more practical phase and start asking hard questions like: What might you need to sacrifice, in order to align your values with your work? Obama advisor Valerie …

S6 EP5 STEP 5: THE PATHS

May 20th, 2021

22:39

Today is Step 5 of The ZigZag Project, our six-step process to get you from wanting to make a big change in your life and work...to actually making a …

S6 EP6 STEP 6: THE TIMELINE

June 3rd, 2021

26:57

On the final episode of The ZigZag Project, activist Stacey Abrams explains her short-term strategies for sticking to her long-term goals and Manoush shares data from surveying thousands of listeners about making a big …

Farewell

February 22nd, 2024

0:39

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